劃重點：
白巖松：
來到中國之前的時候，我看到消息說您又成為首富了，您還會關注這樣的新聞嗎?
比爾·蓋茨：
你知道，考慮到我每年捐掉50億美元，估計排名很快就有可能下滑了！
這是一場巖松與世界首富召開的英語6級聽力測試，
今晚22:15 CCTV13 開考。
11月16日，比爾·蓋茨憑藉和美國五角大樓的雲計算合同，以1100億美元淨資產重回世界首富。微軟公司創始人、世界首富，他身上的這些標籤更為人所知。
早在2000年，比爾·蓋茨便和夫人創立了全球最大的非營利性慈善機構--比爾及梅琳達·蓋茨基金會，旨在投入經費促進全球衛生和教育領域問題解決的研究和創新，2008年他正式退休並把工作重心轉移到基金會。
本周三，比爾·蓋茨接受央視記者白巖松專訪，探討公共衛生話題。
以下為採訪全文：
白巖松：
我知道前幾天您還在杜拜，為消滅小兒麻痺症籌款，今天又來到中國參加結核病倡導的活動，我知道您還非常關心瘧疾，所有這些疾病對於中國人來說已成為過去時，那您為什麼還選擇關注？
比爾·蓋茨
Well, all the disease that affect poor people are the priority for our foundation. A child born in Africa is 50 times morelikely to die than a child born in Europe or the U.S. or China. And this is an unbelievable inequity. Those children will have almost half of themmalnutrition, so their brains and body won't fully develop. And so, the world is rich enough that weshould treat these lives as having equal value. And yet in areas like malaria the actual funding is very low. Our foundation is the biggest funder ofmalaria, and yet it's killing still over 500,000 children a year. So, these diseases, they're not as visiblebecause a lot of the burdens will be in the poor countries.
威脅貧困人口的各種疾病都是蓋茨基金會的關注重點。如果一個孩子出生在非洲，那麼他的死亡風險將比出生在歐洲、美國或中國的兒童，高出五十倍。這是一個令人難以置信的不平等現象。這些非洲兒童中大約有一半都是營養不良，所以他們的身體與大腦均無法得到全面發育。我相信這個世界所累積的財富，足以使我們對此施以援手。因為所有生命價值平等，但是在一些領域，比如瘧疾，全球真正的資金投入非常少。蓋茨基金會目前是瘧疾領域最大的資助者。即使這樣，每年仍有超過五十萬的兒童因瘧疾喪生。這些疾病之所以看起來不嚴重，是因為大部分都發生在貧困國家。
China stilldoes have 44,000 TB deaths per year. So,even though it's done a good job, the numbers have come down, there's stillworks to be done even here.
如今中國每年仍有四萬四千人因結核病喪生，所以雖然已經取得很大的成就（結核病相關死亡等），數字大幅下降，但仍有很多工作需要推進。
白巖松：
說到我們的對手，可能就是疾病，或者說是病菌。你看結核病，如果來說幾十年前的時候人們都會歡慶，覺得有新藥了可以很快治癒了，但是五十年過去，今年才誕生了新藥（抗結核新藥貝達喹啉）您怎麼評估我們的對手？病菌是不是比我們想像的更聰明？我們該怎麼去看待它？
比爾·蓋茨
Yeah, with tuberculosis, if we don't create new drugs, then we go backwards and we get moreand more of this drug-resistant type of TB. About 10 percent of the cases here in China are this drug-resistant TB.
是的，如果不針對結核病研發新藥，那我們有可能出現倒退，屆時將會出現越來越多耐藥結核菌。目前在中國結核病患者中，耐藥結核病患者的比例大約已經佔到百分之十。
Our foundation has now a couple of new drugs that are helping to address that, and we have a pipeline of drugs that will come out.
蓋茨基金會已經針對耐藥性研發並推出了部分新藥未來還會有一系列新藥問世。
There's a center in Beijing, the Global Health Drug Discovery Institute, which is funded by Beijing, our foundation, and Tsinghua University. It’s come together and got ten brilliant scientists. And so, we will have a lot of great TB drugs coming out of that institution.
我們聯合北京市政府和清華大學，共同出資在北京創建了「全球健康藥物研發中心」，吸引了大批出色科學家，未來將會問世的新藥中，很多將會出自這個中心。
白巖松：
但是看結核病菌，現在很多患者是有了耐藥性，說明病菌也在學習，我們該用什麼態度面對我們的這些挑戰和病菌這些對手？
比爾·蓋茨
Well, we went too long without investing in tuberculosis research. And so, the bug did get ahead of us. Now that's being changed. The science of biology is much stronger. This is an area, also another disease where our foundation is the biggest funder, but we're drawing in the joint funding of the institute here, the cooperation with the Health Commission to treat people better.
在結核病研究方面，我們有很長一段時間都沒有足夠的投入，所以病菌走在了我們前面。現在這一狀況正在發生改變，生物科技也在快速發展，蓋茨基金會也是結核病領域最大資助者，不過我們也還是需要其他合作夥伴的資金，需要和中國國家健康衛生委員會這樣的夥伴密切合作，才能改善公眾健康。
With TB， if they take their drug the whole time, then they get fully cured. But a lot of the time you feel better after a few months and then you stop taking the drug. And so, working on compliance is also important, and we have some innovations that have been tried in the pilot provinces, and we think that should get scaled up to the entire country and to the entire world.
就結核病而言，只要人們能夠堅持長期足量服藥就能痊癒。但問題是經過幾個月的治療後，人們會覺得自己已經好多了，就會自行停藥。所以提升病人服藥的依從性就顯得尤為重要。我們現在在一些試點省份，有一些創新舉措 ，我覺得應該在全國乃至全世界推廣這些方案。
白巖松
這張照片是不是還在您的記憶當中？十年前，您在中國海南和結核病病人在聊天，轉眼您和中國政府合作，面對結核病已經有十年了，這十年的路您覺得走的順暢嗎？滿意嗎？
比爾·蓋茨
Absolutely. We have more to do. but it's been a greatten-year partnership. This visit was very important, because I was shocked to see the number of pills that the patient had to take, every day over 10 pills, and it was very complicated. And in fact, I went back to our team and said, why is it so many pills? And within about three years, China changed the regimen so there were far, far fewer pills, only about three per day, and that's really helped a lot with the compliance, getting people to continue to take this medicine. So, in a way this was the start of a key piece of work that we've done together with China.
當然記得，在結核病防治工作方面，我們依舊任重道遠，但過去10年中，我們和中國的合作非常成功，海南那次訪問，對我個人而言非常重要，我看見一個病人每天需要口服十多片藥，真的非常驚訝，服藥的過程真是太複雜了 。所以我就問我的團隊，為什麼需要這麼多片藥？在此後三年不到的時間內 ，中國就更換了結核病治療處方，將用藥數量減少到每天三片，從而提高了人們的用藥依從性，所以從某種意義上來說，這張照片是我們跟中國合作推進結核病防治工作的開端。
2019年11月20日，國家衛健委-蓋茨基金會結核病防治項目十周年研討會在北京舉行。作為蓋茨基金會聯席主席的比爾·蓋茨，出席結核病防治項目十周年研討會。
十年前，蓋茨基金會開始參與中國結核病防治項目，共同建立起可操作、可持續、可複製的結核病綜合防治模式。但結核病仍是中國主要的公共衛生問題之一，當天，比爾·蓋茨與國家衛健委籤署《諒解備忘錄》，助力加速實現2030年終止結核病流行的可持續發展目標。為解決患者用藥依從性，中國推出使用了比爾·蓋茨手中的這個電子藥盒。它會提醒結核病患者用藥和就診時間，並記錄用藥信息以備醫生跟進，這套務實創新裝置讓不堅持服藥的可能性減半。
白巖松
中國是怎樣的一個合作夥伴，在您過去十年的感受當中？
比爾·蓋茨
Well,China's done such a good job improving health in the country. You know, there are areas that still need work like finishing off TB, getting TB eventually to zero, but now as people look to the world, they're hoping that China's not just a partner for building infrastructure, which that's an incredible thing and China is the best at doing that, but also on issues where China's succeeded in health, China will be certified as having gotten rid of malaria next year. And so, there's a lot of know how that for Africa, who still has 500,000 children dying every year, they like to understand how did China do that.
中國在提高全民健康方面取得了傑出的成績當然，現在依然有很多進步空間 ，比如全面消除結核病，將結核病發病率降為零等等。放眼全球，人們不僅希望中國幫助他們進行基礎設施建設，當然這也是非常重要的，而且中國是這方面的專家。人們還希望中國分享公共衛生領域的成功經驗。明年中國將被認證為徹底消除瘧疾的國家，對於每年仍有五十多萬兒童因此喪生的非洲國家而言，中國消除瘧疾的經驗尤為珍貴。
And so, I think this kind of soft power, this image of China sharing the expertise with these poor countries, our foundation wants to help with that and see how we can accelerate improving the lives particularly in these African countries.
我相信中國同貧困國家分享自身經驗，這樣一種形象的本身，就是一種軟實力，我們基金會願意為此提供幫助和中國攜手探索，加速改善非洲人民生活的方法。
白巖松
通過您剛才的一些講述，中國也有一些成功經驗，包括方法，是可以幫助其他國家的，比如說在瘧疾這方面等等，說到具體的話，您覺得中國經驗和方法在中國健康和衛生領域，什麼是您特別覺得應該拿走讓其它國家看到的？
比爾·蓋茨
Yeah, it was interesting, China has always worked very hard, is the rural health as good as the urban health, and for things like childhood death or maternal death. And China's done a great job of creating this equity, really intensifying the quality of the health services for the entire country. And there is a lot to belearned from that.
是的，這很有趣，中國一直致力於實現城鄉醫療水平的均衡發展，在降低兒童死亡率和孕產婦死亡率方面的工作也卓有成效，這些都大大提高了健康公平性，也提升了整個國家的公共衛生服務質量，中國在這方面的經驗值得學習。
The expertise in China is across many of the diseases. I put malaria at the top but China also did avery good job on TB, they did a good job on HIV.
中國在許多疾病的防控方面都有專業經驗，我將瘧疾排在第一位，但其實中國的結核病和愛滋病的防治工作也相當出色。
Also, Chinais developing a whole industry of making drugs and vaccines.
同時中國也在大力發展醫藥與疫苗行業。
And so, ourfoundation is invested to help China raise that level and is good partners on that. That's good for China to have a gold standard regulator.
我們基金會加大投入與監管機構深化合作，助力中國藥監持續對標國際先進水平。
It also means that these innovations will be acceptable to the entire world, they don't have to go through another regulation process. So, the innovation of Chinese drugs, Chinese vaccines will immediately not just help China but also help these other countries. And so, I think that investment of unlocking Chinese innovation to be available worldwide, that's something we are excited about being a partner in that.
因為那也意味著中國研發的創新藥物，能被全世界其他國家認可而不需要通過額外的審批流程。屆時中國研發的創新藥物與疫苗，不僅可以造福中國，而且可以同時讓其它國家受益，我們很高興成為將中國創新推向全球的合作夥伴。
白巖松
蓋茨基金會特別願意選擇的這種合作夥伴和項目是在於有創意，或者說有創新，為什麼格外地會把創意和創新放在這麼重要的位置上？
比爾·蓋茨
Well, when Ifirst got started in the foundation, I thought the only thing we would do was to fund scientists for new drugs and vaccines. And in fact, about half of the 5 billion we spend every year is for that innovation.
蓋茨基金會成立之初，我們的計劃只是資助科學家研發新的藥物和疫苗，直到現在基金會每年捐贈的50億美元中，約有一半花在了創新和研發上。
We did discover, though, that unless we helped with the delivery with the healthcare systems, that even if we invented a new vaccine, that it wouldn't get out and help all the children of the world.
但我們同時發現，如果沒有一個行之有效的衛生保健體系，即使有了新的疫苗，也無法將它送到全球各地有需要的孩子手中。
And so, we realized we had to develop an understanding of this primary healthcare and how do mothers know is there a place for them to come and get their children vaccinated.
因此我們必須對基層衛生保健體系，建立充分的理解並讓媽媽們知道，到什麼地方給孩子接種疫苗。
Vaccines are miraculous and there's many new vaccines that have been invented in the last 10 years for diarrhea, pneumonia, andthere's many more that are coming for things like cervical cancer, HPV vaccines, and could be very cheap and get out to protect everyone in the world.So, we're now a balance of understanding the invention side and the deliveryside and, of course, China has a lot to bring in both of those areas, because it's done such an amazing job not only reducing poverty but improving thehealth of all the citizens.
疫苗對人類的貢獻不言而喻，過去十年又有大量的新疫苗研發出來，包括針對腹瀉，肺炎的疫苗等等，目前還有針對宮頸癌的HPV疫苗等陸續面世，價格進一步下降後，就有可能使每個人得到保護，所以我們現在對藥物研發與服務遞送系統，都有了更好的了解。當然中國在這兩方面都做得很好，不僅體現在減貧還有提升全民健康方面。
白巖松
您看您最初的時候最重視新藥，新藥到今天也很重要，比如說結核病，有了這個新藥，很多患者就可能從苦難當中擺脫出來，但是我注意到您當然更加關注疫苗，你對疫苗未來在中國，包括在世界的發展是什麼樣的態度？我們可以更樂觀期待它的未來嗎？
比爾·蓋茨
Well, vaccines are amazing. An entire disease, smallpox, was completelyeradicated by using a vaccine. Thesecond disease that we're trying to eradicate, polio, again there was a vaccinecreated in the 1950s, the Jonas Salk vaccine, and another vaccine that if weuse it properly, if we get it out to enough children, this disease will go awaycompletely.
疫苗的作用很神奇，疫苗徹底消滅了天花這種疾病。小兒麻痺症（脊髓灰質炎）是我們正在嘗試用疫苗消滅的第二種疾病，其實人類上世紀50年代就已經研發出了這種疾病的疫苗——喬納斯·索爾克研發的脊髓灰質炎疫苗。如果我們使用得當並為足夠多的兒童接種這種疫苗，小兒麻痺症終將被徹底消滅。
When this elimination campaignwas started, over 300,000 children were being paralyzed every year back in1988.
根除小兒麻痺症的行動開始於1988年，當時全球每年有超過30萬名兒童因罹患小兒麻痺症而癱瘓。
I just came from the conference where we raised billions of dollars and our foundation itself committed over abillion dollars for this polio eradication effort. We're down to two countries, Pakistan and Afghanistan, that still have this wild polio virus. But with a little bit of luck, because it's tricky working in unstable conditions, but with a little bit of luck, in two or three years this disease will go away and no child will ever be paralyzed everagain.
我們剛剛召開了一次大會，為根除小兒麻痺症的行動籌集了數十億美元的款項，蓋茨基金會也承諾為此增加超過10億美元的資助。目前只有巴基斯坦和阿富汗這兩個國家，仍存在野生的脊髓灰質炎病毒，好在這種病毒在不穩定的環境下很難傳播，藉助一點運氣，未來兩到三年內脊髓灰質炎有望被根除 ，再也不會有兒童因為這一疾病而癱瘓。
白巖松
接下來的問題可能是一個選擇題，您覺得疫苗未來有更好的發展是取決於什麼？是取決於錢，還是頭腦，還是之後的管理還是人類的合作？
比爾·蓋茨
Well,certainly collaboration where you're getting the best work in China, the United States, in Europe, and you're pairing that up with investing in the delivery systems, even in the very poorest countries we should be able to get vaccines out to 95 percent of all the world's children.
當然是合作。通過合作，你可以把在中國、美國或歐洲的高質量疫苗與用於改善服務遞送系統的投資相結合，這樣一來，即使是最貧困的國家也能用上這些高質量疫苗，我們可以通過合作讓疫苗覆蓋全球95%的兒童。
And unlike a lot of healthcare, this can be very, very inexpensive. Thevaccines eventually get down to be a dollar or less and the delivery system is mostly community workers, you don't need doctors actually to get these vaccines out. And so, it's the biggest miracle inhealth ever.
而且與很多其他醫療服務不同的是，疫苗可能非常非常便宜，疫苗的價格有時候低至1美元甚至更低，而且基層衛生工作者，就可以完成接種。甚至不需要醫生參與。所以說疫苗是醫學史上最偉大的奇蹟。
The reason that the world we had backin 2000, 10 million children would die before the age of five, now that's below5 million, and the main reason for that is that we've taken these vaccines, one for diarrhea, one for pneumonia, and a few others, and we've gotten them out to more children.
2000年時，全球每年有1000萬兒童在5歲以前死亡。現在這一數字已降至500萬以下，這主要歸功於疫苗，我們已經開發出針對腹瀉肺炎和其它一些疾病的疫苗，並讓越來越多的兒童接種了這些疫苗。
And I'm always surprised most people don't know about this cutting childhood death in half, because it is such apositive, wonderful thing. And if we dothe right things, we'll be able to cut it in half again by 2030. And so, in terms of equity in the world, the type of idea of equality, getting rid of those childhood deaths I think is sort of the top of the list of making the world a more just place.
疫苗已經把兒童死亡人數降低了一半，可讓我一直感到奇怪的是，如此積極 美妙的事情，大多數人居然並不知道。如果措施得當，到2030年我們可以使每年的兒童死亡人數再減少一半。我認為在提升全球公平性的各種措施中，應把降低兒童死亡人數放在首位。
白巖松
愛滋病的防治也是你關注的一個焦點問題，你知道12月1號馬上就要來了，愛滋病又會成為一個世界性的話題，愛滋病是否也可以通過疫苗根治？您在為此做什麼樣的工作？您覺得愛滋病今天是不是會像很多年前，依然可怕？
比爾·蓋茨
Well, AIDS is sort of a glass half full. The world has made a lot of progress. The infection rates have gone down. But still 1.3 million people every year are still getting infected. And we don't have a vaccine to prevent the disease. We're working hard on that. I think in the next 10 years there's a very good chance we'll have that vaccine. We're a big investor in making that takeplace.
愛滋病就像那個裝了半杯水的杯子（不同的人可能有不同的看法），在世界範圍內愛滋病防治已經取得了重大進展，愛滋病病毒感染率已經有所下降，但是每年仍有130萬人感染愛滋病病毒，我們目前還沒有研發出能夠有效預防愛滋病的疫苗，但我們正努力開展這方面的工作。我認為人類今後十年開發出愛滋病疫苗的概率很高，在這一領域，蓋茨基金會是一個重要的投資者，我們正努力讓它早日成為現實。
And so, this is an epidemic that's a bit less visible because the United States and China have done a good job cutting the cases down. The big numbers are still very much in Africa. And so, pulling the world together to solve that one, I still think it's super important, even though it's less visible today.
由於美國和中國在減少愛滋病方面開展了卓有成效的工作，愛滋病問題在這兩個國家並未被凸顯，但是非洲仍然是愛滋病高發地，因此我認為推動全球各國共同應對愛滋病問題，仍然是一項非常重要的工作，儘管這一問題已經有所緩解。
在疾病防控、扶貧方面持續投入了數百億美元後，困擾比爾·蓋茨的最大問題，往往與技術本身無關。去年爆發的中美貿易糾紛，讓蓋茨基金會與中國的核電合作項目被迫終止；就在這個月，美國宣布正式退出巴黎氣候協定，打擊了本就脆弱的環保聯盟，而大氣環境也是基金會的重要項目之一。
白巖松
您剛才說了，中國正變得越來越富裕，但有的時候它也會變成煩惱。比如說有的人就會認為，你就是一種威脅，中美兩國之間現在有很多讓人擔心的事情，美國一些人會覺得中國不再是合作夥伴，而是敵人。您對此有什麼看法 ？您認為未來中美應該向什麼方向去走？
比爾·蓋茨
Well, I think the U.S.-China relationship is the most important relationship in the world. And so, I've been disappointed the last few years as the agreement about trade issues or many issues hasn't been very strong. So, there's been kind of, at least in the trade area, this escalation.
我認為美中關係，是世界上最重要的雙邊關係之一。而最近幾年雙方在貿易以及其他一些問題上，沒有達成很強的共識，在貿易領域甚至出現了矛盾升級這讓人感到失望。
I'm very hopeful that we can find common purpose, because after all, if you take a challenge like climate change, theonly way to solve that problem is to have China and the U.S. working together. We need innovations in China,we need innovations in the United States.
我非常希望雙方能夠找到共同的目標，畢竟當面臨諸如氣候變化這樣的挑戰時，解決問題的唯一方法，就是中美雙方共同攜手，我們需要中國的創新，我們同時也需要美國的創新。
It's just one example of a problem that like fighting terrorism, if the two countries are spending a lot of resources kind of going after each other, then our progress on these global issues,whether it's getting rid of disease, stopping climate change, reducing terrorism, we won't make as much progress. And so, I'm a big believer in dialogue to reduce the misunderstandings that are out there.
這個例子與反恐問題類似，如果兩國都投入巨大資源進行較量，那麼我們在消除疾病，扼制氣候變化，減少恐怖主義等全球性問題上，都不會取得太大進展。因此對於通過對話減少雙方的誤會，我是一名堅定的擁護者。
白巖松
那您當然還是覺得中國是合作夥伴，不是敵人或者說是對手。
比爾·蓋茨
Oh, absolutely, China's fantastic. In my first career, my Microsoft career, we opened this research center in Beijing, and the contributions of the people there to computer science and to the success of Microsoft has been amazing. And so, I've gotten to see the incredible talent and opportunity to help the entire world, starting with that amazing research center that's been set up there.
那當然了，中國是非常出色的合作夥伴，當年我還在微軟的時候，我們在北京設立了研發中心，中心人員對計算機科學和微軟的成功，做出了巨大貢獻。我也因此看到了中國出色的人才和幫助世界發展的機會。就是從這一了不起的研發中心開始的。
白巖松
今年健康中國行動正式開始促進實施，其中一個非常重要的理念就是由治病為中心轉成以預防為中心，聽到這句話的時候會不會覺得中國是您特別好的知音？
比爾·蓋茨
Well, China as it's gotten richer, there's this shift that takes place that you've done such a good job on these infectious diseases that now if you think about the burden, it's very much in the chronic disease, the noncommunicable. And so, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, these are going to be a lot ofmedical costs.
隨著國力的增強，中國在這些傳染病的控制上，已經取得顯著成效。目前中國的醫療負擔，很大一部分來源於慢性非傳染性疾病，心臟病、糖尿病、癌症，這些疾病將繼續產生大量的醫療費用。
Now, as you know, you still have to have some effort on infectious disease and hopefully share that great success with the rest of the world, but now there will be a challenge as you have an aging population that some of those chronic diseases, innovated on how do you treat those, particularly without it becoming super expensive, it is a big challenge,and it's great that China has more and more innovative work going on for drugs and vaccines and thinking about the health system and how you diagnose, maybe using genetic type tests. And so, in order to meet this challenge, innovation will be very key.
你知道，中國在傳染病方面仍有一些工作要做，與此同時，希望中國也能與世界其他國家分享抗擊傳染病方面取得的成功經驗。但是中國目前面臨老齡化問題，針對某些慢性病研發新的治療方法，控制醫療費用，是中國面臨的一項重大挑戰。但中國正在開展越來越多的創新工作，無論是在藥物和疫苗研發方面，還是改善衛生體系上，還是在診斷過程中採用基因檢測等手段。總之在應對上述挑戰的過程中，創新是非常關鍵的一環。
白巖松
在中國的健康中國特別行動中，特別提到個體是健康的第一負責人，你要為自己的健康做很多工作，我特別想知道，您為您的健康會特別做哪些工作？
比爾·蓋茨
Well, I think the key things for health are exercise, quite a bit. I play a lot of tennis and I do exercise around that, which is really fun.
我認為健康的關鍵很大程度上在於運動 我經常打網球 並且為此還要做很多練習 非常有意思。
Keep challenging your brain so you're always trying to learn new things is very important.
不斷挑戰你的大腦 這樣你就會始終努力去學習新事物 這一點也非常重要。
Having purpose in your life so you have this positive engagement of things that you want to get done, lots of friends and family around, that's actually also been proven to be very beneficial to health.
在生活中要確立目標，這樣你就會積極地參與自己感興趣的事情，經常跟朋友和家人在一起，這也被證明對健康非常有益。
So, I'm very lucky that I love my work. I love tennis. So, it keeps me pretty healthy. My kids are still very young,so they have a lot of energy and I have to keep up with them. So, I'm hopeful that I'll have maybe even 30more years to work on all these diseases, because in 30 years we should be able to get rid of the majority of all these diseases. That's the big priority for our foundation and I want to help with that personally as much as I can.
所以說我很幸運，我喜歡我的工作，也喜歡打網球，這讓我能夠保持非常健康的狀態，我的三個孩子年齡還很年輕，精力十分充沛，我必須跟得上他們的節奏。因此我希望我還可以有30年以上的時間，來研究所有這些疾病，因為在30年之內，我們應該能夠消滅其中的大多數疾病，這是我們蓋茨基金會的重中之重，我也想盡我所能提供幫助。
2008年，比爾·蓋茨在接受訪問時表示，將把自己的財產全數捐給名下慈善基金，並於生前花光所有積蓄，一分一毫也不會留給自己子女。2010年，他和夫人以及巴菲特成立「捐贈誓言」，加入其中的富豪承諾將自己一半以上財富，捐獻給慈善組織或用於慈善事業，包括中國在內的不少世界富豪加入其中。截至目前，蓋茨夫婦共捐出超過900億美元財產。
白巖松
你知道，隨著中國的富裕，中國出現了越來越多的富豪有錢人，您覺得他們都應該做公益嗎？如果他們想聽到比爾·蓋茨先生對他們的建議的話，您建議他們做什麼？
比爾·蓋茨
Well, I'm a huge believer in philanthropy. You know, when you get a large fortune, of course you pay your taxes, but if the government is letting you keep large amounts of money, then what is it for? It shouldn't be for consumption. And probably leaving your children too much money may not even be a favor to them. So, I'm a huge believer that the rich should set an example of giving their money away and using their time.
我十分相信慈善的力量，當你擁有巨大的財富時除了納稅之外，如果政府允許你保留大量財富，那麼用這些錢來做什麼呢？我們不能只用於消費，將太多的財富留給孩子們，對他們的成長也並非好事。因此我堅定地認為，富人應該樹立榜樣，將財富捐贈出去並投入時間到慈善事業中。
Now, there are many different causes. I picked health as a primary cause. Other people will pick the environment or they'll pick a specific disease that they back scientists or helping out with education or culture, but, yes, I think the habit of philanthropy we should almost expect those who are well off to be giving money away.
慈善事業有很多領域，我選擇重點關注健康領域，其他人可能會選擇環保或者某種特定的疾病，資助科學家們支持教育或文化事業等等，我認為慈善應該是一種習慣，富人應該將他們的財富捐贈出去。
And it's been great now, we have a number of Chinese members of a group called The Giving Pledge, which is 200 people,all of whom have been very lucky in terms of the wealth, are now committed that the majority of their wealth will go back to help those most in need.
我很欣慰地看到，有多位中國慈善家加入了捐贈誓言的行列，目前倡議的全部成員有200多位，他們都幸運地擁有大量財富，如今他們承諾將大部分財富回饋社會，幫助那些最需要幫助的人。
白巖松
接下來的這個問題非常簡單，以您自己的體驗來說，掙錢更難還是花錢（做慈善）更難？
比爾·蓋茨
That's a very good question. You know, if you have a very high standard for the impact you want to have, then philanthropy is difficult. You know, philanthropy works on problems that are not solved by the private sector. The private sector is super important and it can solve so many problems,but a problem like malaria where the people who are sick have no money, then there's no market signal, so no company is encouraged to do that work. And so, only philanthropy can come in and encourage the scientists to work in this area, because it's a bit of a marketfailure.
這個問題很好，如果你希望通過慈善，產生很大的影響這其實很難。慈善事業致力於那些私營部門無法解決的問題，私營部門當然很重要，並能夠解決很多問題，但像瘧疾這樣的問題，得瘧疾的人往往沒錢，導致市場信號缺失 也就沒有企業有動力做這方面的研發工作，這時只有慈善機構才能夠發揮作用，鼓勵科學家們開展相關研究，解決市場失靈的問題。
So, philanthropy is only maybe even in the U.S. where it's quite strong about 2 percent of the economy. Ideally, maybe it would be 3 percent but very small compared to the government and compared to the private sector, but playing quite a unique role of being able to try new things out like how do you improve education. Well, philanthropy can help with that. How do you get lots of research in universities? Well,philanthropy can raise that to a level even beyond what the government alone can achieve.
美國的慈善事業比較發達，慈善捐贈約佔國家經濟總量的2% 理想情況下這一比例可能會達到3% ，然而和政府及私營部門相比，體量仍非常小。但慈善部門在創新方面扮演著非常獨特的角色，比如如何改善教育質量慈善機構有其用武之地，再比如在提高高校科研成果上，慈善甚至能夠發揮比政府更大的作用。
白巖松
那還是花錢更難了？
比爾·蓋茨
Yeah, it's harder to measure and when you choose to work in places like Africa, you know, or Afghanistan, there's going to be setbacks. It's not going to be quite the same as my career in software, which was mostly -- you know, growing every year.
可以這樣說 其實很難去衡量。如果你選擇在非洲或阿富汗這樣的地方開展工作，一定會遇到挫折，這和我做軟體事業很不一樣。（微軟）發展得很不錯，每年都在增長。
白巖松
您是一個樂觀的人嗎？101年之前中國有一個老人（梁濟）問他的兒子（梁漱溟），這個世界會好嗎？他的兒子回答，可能會好吧。但是幾天後，這個老人去世了，在這一百多年，中國人一直在問這個問題，您的答案是什麼？這個世界會好嗎？
比爾·蓋茨
Absolutely. The world has been improving immensely. People are living longer. Women are getting more rights. We have so much innovation in medicine to solve a lot of the suffering.
當然，世界正在極大地改善著，人們的壽命在延長，女性也在擁有更多的權利，醫學領域湧現的大量創新可以幫助患者擺脫痛苦。
Sometimes when you look at the politics of the world, you can worry, okay, are we going to have the stability that we want. But if you really step back and say, would you prefer the world 30 years ago, were women better off 30 years ago, were people who are gay better off 30 years ago, you know, if you get a disease would you rather have it now than 30 years ago, the difference is really dramatic.
當你關注世界政治局勢的時候，你可能會擔心，我們是否會擁有我們渴望的穩定。但是退一步說，你願意回到30年前的世界嗎？30年前的女性是否過得更好？30年前，同性戀群體是否過得更好？如果你不幸罹患某種疾病，你是不是寧願生活在現在，而不是30年前？30年前後的差異非常巨大。
And so, it's good that we're dissatisfied with the current situation. A lot of young people are speaking out about climate change in an angry way, and I'm all for that. It's going to help us prioritize that the way it should be. But we cannot lose sight of the fact that the world has improved immensely and continuing to invest in science and invest in countries working together for peace. The future is going to be much better than the past.
我們對現狀感到不滿是一件好事，許多年輕人以憤怒的方式呼籲關注氣候變化，我認可這種方式，這有助於我們優先考慮更關鍵的問題。但是我們不應該忘記，世界已大大改善，各國對科研及和平事業持續進行投入，未來一定會比過去更美好！
白巖松
這個世界會好嗎？你如果問我這個問題，我的回答是不知道。但是如果相信會變好的人慢慢多起來，並為此做很多推動的事情，那我相信：世界是會慢慢變好的。所以我很認同比爾蓋茨基金會所喜歡的一句話：我們是樂天行動派！
蓋茨與央視《新聞周刊》專訪團隊合影
製片人|王力軍
記 者 |白巖松
編 導 | 張大鵬 王樂兮 宣霽祐 姚道磊 徐新
攝 像 |歷文博溫創 胡蘇翰 曹鴻 陳旭
錄 音| 宮鵬飛