當疫情對各國經濟造成衝擊，單邊主義與反全球化浪潮也隨之興起。在這種情況下，如何保持開放的心態，堅持走全球化合作道路？中美公共事物協會會長滕邵駿先生，將為我們分享他的經驗和觀點。全球化智庫（CCG）聯合鳳凰衛視推出抗疫特別系列節目，多維度視角解讀疫情下的政治經濟文化，周一至周五19:15 – 19:20，鳳凰衛視中文臺播出。
【節目背景】
在新冠肺炎疫情全球蔓延背景下，全球化智庫（CCG）與鳳凰衛視攜手策劃針對疫情的國際觀察節目。節目著眼於人類命運共同體及全球化高度，以真實、理性、務實為基點，通過與國內外知名專家學者面對面訪談或視頻連線，深度解讀全球新冠肺炎疫情期及恢復期的疫情控制、中外關係、全球合作、貿易政策、公共衛生、全球治理體系改革、應急管理體系完善、汙名化等話題，從多維視角探討疫情對全球發展的影響。
文字實錄 | 滕邵駿：理性的國家交朋友
本期嘉賓
滕邵駿，CCG常務理事，美中公共事務協會會長。
鳳凰衛視主持人朱梓橦：當疫情對各國經濟造成衝擊，單邊主義與反全球化浪潮也隨之興起。在這種情況下，如何保持開放的心態，堅持走全球化合作道路？中美公共事物協會會長滕邵駿先生，將為我們分享他的經驗和觀點。
一、美國就業狀況與單邊主義
主持人：And now it's reported in the last three weeks, In California alone, there are about 3 million people that applied for unemployment. And the number for the entire US I think, is around 20 million. What do you think this high unemployment rate means for the US ？
（據報導，在過去三周，僅在加州，就有大約300萬人申請失業。我想整個美國的數字大約是2000萬。你認為高失業率對美國意味著什麼?）
滕邵駿：I would say that some of the unemployment that might go longer, but the others a short term because there you really talking about airline,food and beverage industries. And many of these industry as soon as people can be traveling and going out and people going back to office, //However, their small businesses and others probably cannot last during this period, and they might have to shut down.
（我想說的是，有些失業可能會持續更長的時間，但其他的是短期的，因為如果談論航空、食品和飲料行業。很多這樣的行業一旦人們可以外出旅行，人們可以回到辦公室就會恢復。然而，一些小企業可能在這段時間內無法生存，他們可能不得不關閉。）
So their employee might have prepare prolong unemployment. So we will see that in terms of a recession, I do think that most American thing that we're already in a recession.
(所以他們的僱員可能需要準備面對長期的失業，所以我們會看到，就經濟衰退而言，我確實認為大多數美國人都認為我們已經處於經濟衰退中。)
主持人：We see the director of the US national economic council encouraging US companies in China to go back to the US and there is this idea of US having its own comprehensive supply value chain, not having to depend on other countries. A lot of people think this is an absurd idea. Do you think in the future there will be a trend of anti globalization? Do you think US can be self sufficient?
（我們看到美國國家經濟委員會主任鼓勵在中國的美國公司回到美國，美國有這個想法，即擁有自己的全面供應價值鏈,不必依賴於其他國家。很多人認為這是一個荒謬的想法。你認為未來會有反全球化的趨勢嗎?你認為美國能自給自足嗎?）
滕邵駿：I think currently, certainly the white house and administration is going through a anti globalization, but that's not a reality.
Even though united states, we are very resource rich, we have oil, we have minerals, we have manpower, everything, but many of the resources many of the labours many of the so many things we still needed from other places in the world. I use one case, rare earth. This is something that every computer, every technology machine will need. Ah, China is the largest producer, and we can name a a lot of these things. Sometimes it does not even make sense for the united states to produce these things, because economically does not make sense. So isolation of others, while sounds good, They will be winding of isolating themselves.
（我認為目前，可以確定的是白宮和政府正在經歷一場反全球化的運動，但這並不現實。儘管美國有豐富的資源，我們有石油，礦產，人力等等，但是很多資源，很多勞動力，很多東西我們仍然需要從世界其他地方獲得。我用一個例子，稀土。這是每臺電腦，每臺高科技的機器都需要的東西。中國是最大的生產國，我們可以舉出很多這樣的例子。有時美國生產這些東西甚至沒有意義，因為從經濟上講沒有意義。因此，孤立他人，雖然聽起來不錯，但最終也會孤立自己。）
二、對外援助與合作
主持人：Since the beginning of the outbreak, we've seen incidents of discrimination against Chinese, another east Asian ethnic groups. Whereas at the same time, the Chinese communities actually donating mosques and other medical supplies to their local communities. Do you have any interesting stories to share with us in that regard?
（自從疫情爆發以來，我們已經看到了歧視中國人等針對東亞民族的事件。而與此同時，華人社區卻在向當地社區捐贈口罩等醫療物資。在這方面你有什麼有趣的故事想和我們分享嗎?）
滕邵駿：I think the discrimination and hate is separate from our friendship and the generosity. I think that today in the united states, i've said to my friends, every donation is coming from a foreign country. Most likely come from China. And every one of those donation either have the Chinese government, the Chinese consulate and embassy, the Chinese state owned enterprises, Chinese private business, Chinese citizens, Chinese American.
（我認為歧視和仇恨與我們的友誼和慷慨是分開的。我認為今天的美國，我對我的朋友們也這樣說過，每一筆來自外國的捐款，最有可能來自中國。這些捐款來自於中國政府、中國使領館、中國國有企業、中國民營企業、中國公民、華裔美國人。）
I think it's a great thing. And certainly the united states and some of this company also have donated to the China the beginning of this upset. So I think this kind of friendship and mostly all of these things are on the state level and they're very, very welcome. Right now what I'm trying to do is helping the African American community, the hispanic community, and other community, because they don't have the resources. They don't know how to get them baby. They might not have the money to buy them somewhere. Yet. A lot of their community are service workers and so forth that they need this. Right now, new york city's mayor just have ordered that everybody on the street have the way of wear face masks. So either they have the using the scarf to cover themselves. But I think having a face mask problem will be easier. So we are are donating these things into them. And yesterday I drop off a bunch to the to a African American community. And I saw when he took out one of the face mask and just give it to someone because I was found. I just feel so touched to see somebody can take these things that's so valuable and give it to each other. And it's an extension of the sole.
（我認為這是一件偉大的事情。現在我想做的是幫助非洲裔美國人社區，西班牙裔社區，和其他社區，因為他們沒有資源。他們不知道如何給他們孩子提供物資。他們可能沒有錢去別的地方買。然而，他們社區的很多人都是服務人員等等，他們需要這些。現在，紐約市市長剛剛下令街上的每個人都要戴上口罩。所以他們可能用圍巾遮住自己。但我覺得戴口罩會比較容易。所以我們正在把這些東西捐贈給他們。昨天我去了一個非裔美國人社區。我跟著看到一個人在拿一個口罩給別人。我真的很感動，看到有人能把這麼有價值的東西送給彼此。）
三、經驗教訓
主持人：What do you think? Finally, we can learn from this pandemic.
（你覺得我們最終可以從這次疫情中獲得什麼經驗？）
滕邵駿：I think the for the countries, the rational countries. After the pandemic, they were seat to make friends. The irrational countries. We tried to find enemies and placed the blame, I think for individuals after this pandemic, they might re-evaluate the value of their life.
You see, what's more important? Health, your loved ones, your family, your freedom of traveling, lot more. These things a lot more valuable just than making money. And in fact, one of your colleagues, CNN, chris cuomo, he's the governor's brother, and he's a very well known anchor person. He said he doesn't know whether he want to go back as an anchor anymore because he want to spend his life better. He actually was diagnosed with covid 19 as well. So situation stories like this, I think people really re look at their life. It's like you just return from death and how you want to spend the rest of your life. I think in the rather individual will be rethinking the value of what's meaningful to them for the rest of their life.
在國家層面上，理性的國家在疫情之後會坐下來交朋友。不理性的國家會試圖找到敵人，把責任推到其身上。對於個人來說，我認為在這次疫情之後，他們可能會重新評估生命的價值。你看，什麼更重要?你的健康，你愛的人，你的家人，你旅行的自由等等。很多這些東西比賺錢更有價值。事實上，CNN的克裡斯·科莫，他是州長的弟弟，他是一個非常有名的新聞主播。他說，他不知道自己是否還想回去當主播，因為他想更好地去度過一生。他也被確診患上了新冠病毒。所以從這樣的故事中，我認為人們真的會重新審視他們的生活。這就像你剛剛從死亡中歸來，你想如何度過你的餘生。我認為很多人會重新思考對他們今後生活真正有意義的是什麼。
【往期回看】
全球戰「疫」觀察 3 | 美聯儲救世之路
文章選自鳳凰衛視《寰宇同舟—全球戰「疫」觀察》欄目，2020年4月20日
CCG 縱覽
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原標題：《全球戰「疫」觀察26 | 滕邵駿：理性的國家交朋友》