Idit 博士畢業於哈佛大學和麻省理工學院，她是全球知名的教育和新媒體專家。MaMaMedia INC.CEO和創始人。我們就口語學習專題專門採訪了IDIT，請她就中國的口語教學以及怎樣更好地學習英語口語發表了自己的觀點。
SAYBOT：在中國現在有越來越多的人在學習英語，但是有許多人學了許多年卻仍然不會說英語，您覺得最大的問題在哪裡？
IDIT： 為了更好地學會說英語，人們應該堅持練習英語對話。許多中國學生並沒有得到充分的口語練習，因為他們沒有好的內容。閱讀和寫做對英語學習者來說是非常有用，但是對口語練習是不夠的。而且，人們同樣需要提高聽力來幫助他們進行口語練習。最後，為了更好地進行英語會話，我們必須熟悉各種發音，比如：美式、英式、澳大利亞式的英語，以及兒童口音、成人口音和各種行業的口音，這樣可以用來掌握各種說話的系統並且學習怎樣在各種語境和環境下來更好地表達自己。
SAYBOT：有許多人在中國接受了高等教育，但是他們的語言水平有時可能不如一個本土英語國家的小孩。您覺得根本的原因在哪裡？是根本學習方式不同還是其他的原因？
IDIT: 在中國許多人接受過高等教育，我們可以看到他們閱讀和寫作能力都很不錯，但是他們流利清晰地說好英語的能力卻很有限。他們缺少有意義的、吸引人的、有趣的內容來練習口語。我們知道中國人可以學好英語，比如你可以去看看那些在美國留學的人們——他們真的說得很好！所以這是有可能的！
SAYBOT：在我們傳統的英語教學方法中，我們會背好多單詞，做好多練習，許多人為了考試而讀英語。但是在日常生活中，卻使用不出來，您覺得我們傳統英語教學離快速掌握英語的方法有多遠？
IDIT: 通過記憶和背誦英語單詞來學英語從系統化的角度來說並不是一無可取的。英語學習者的確需要通過一個詞一個詞地記憶來擴大詞彙量。但是這一方式必須結合每天和真人進行有關的生活或工作相關的有趣的日常會話，包括聊一些有關於興趣和愛好的話題。
我認為口語結合了以下三種系統方法：1）記憶單詞 2）逐詞逐句練習 3）把新學到的詞句立刻應用到真實的對話和解決問題的場景中——這是學習口語最好的方法
我把這種學習方法叫做：邊學邊做。作為學習方法學家，我做了多年的研究發現那些英語學習者：無論是年輕的還是年老的，都不能真正地恰當地掌握和應用新學的知識（無論是數學、科學、技術、商務或者語言藝術等），除非他們能徹底地投入並著手於相關的活動才使這些知識對他們個人來說有有真實的意義。
SAYBOT：您覺得怎樣在英語學習中，是記憶更重要，還是說話更重要？怎樣才能更簡單地學英語？
IDIT: 我們學習一門新的語言，最好的辦法就是要不斷地說！但是記住：不要只和自己說！語言學習者如果他有興趣學習口語，最好有一位那門語言的母語者，這樣可以來傾聽他們的對話，並且告訴他們最接近和最相關的表達方式；本土語言者可以告訴他們對話中的相關內容，也可以為他們指出語法和發音中的錯誤。他們具有豐富的教學知識可以更正他們的口語，鼓勵他們、幫助學習者達到一個新的水平。
任何口語學習者必須經常在日常生活對話中來進行鍛鍊，否則他們很快會失去熱情中止學習。
這就是「邊學邊做」理論。但是我們也說：探戈需要兩個人才能跳」。也就是說兩個人來學習一門語言是一種很好的方法。理想的語言學習者的身邊需要一位本國語言者（一個完美的舞伴），他是一位很好的傾聽者，他可以理解你的興趣和動機，他也是一位好的指導者，他知道怎樣不斷地鞭策英語學習者，使他們進行完美的語言學習舞蹈！
SAYBOT：目前中國出現了許多英語培訓機構，比如以考試類為主的新東方，以提高口語為主的華爾街，您怎麼看待這些培訓學校，他們會給傳統的英語教學方式怎樣的衝擊？
IDIT：:我沒有親身體驗過這些特殊的訓練中心和他們的語言環境。所以我不能從親身體驗來評論他們。但是我聽說他們收費很高。
我認為華爾街的英語學習以「英語角」而出名，你可以付費，可以和真人進行真實的英語對話，是一個非常好的形式。我也認為華爾街在使用技術——我指的是軟體。雖然我沒有使用過，我認為使用技術「邊學邊做」的理論是很重要的。如果做得正確，技術為英語口語學習的過程帶來很大的幫助。
SAYBOT：說寶堂的口語教學是比較新型的口語學習方法，它是通過人機全方位的互動學習，來幫助大家練口語，這種學習方式和傳統的英語學習方法有了很大的不同。您對SAYBOT的教學軟體怎麼看？
IDIT：說寶堂公司在英語口語教學中找到了一種完全不同以往的新方法。實際上，他們創造了革命性的教學口語方法。說寶堂用有效的方式將最著名和最有效的學習理論用強有力的技術結合起來，因此達到了前面所說的兩大最佳學習方式： 1）邊學邊做 2）探戈需要兩個人來跳。
而且，說寶堂的產品和服務是為中國英語口語學習者量身定做的。說寶堂用最好的技術來開發設計各種全程生動的教學參與和全互動課程，這樣可以隨時隨地幫助中國人來學習真正地說英語，這樣可以幫助他們找到更好的工作、到國外旅遊、在商業中決勝，或者得到更好的託福成績。
說寶堂和中國傳統的英語教學有很大的不同，和其他一些培訓機構比如新東方、華爾街也有很大不同。但從另一方面說，說寶堂的產品結合了許多優秀的英語教學的英語教學方式。他與那些傳統的教學方法和培訓機構模式可以互相合作。這也是說寶堂產品的美妙之處。
體驗了說寶堂的產品你會發現：它具有所有高質量效果英語所具備的一切重要特質： 1）練習真實的生活對話 2）有人傾聽並及時糾正你所犯的錯誤 3）內容非常有趣吸引人，並且和你的每日生活息息有關 4）可承受的價格，隨時隨地便利使用。所有您所做的只要可以上網和一副耳機！這真是美妙極了。
SAYBOT：您覺得未來五年內，英語學習方法會有著怎樣的改變？是延續傳統教學呢，還是會有新的方法所代替？兩者之間是否會有矛盾？英語教學的遠景又是如何？
IDIT: 在今後的年月裡，在中國人學習英語口語的歷程中，說寶堂在創造一個極具影響力的革命。他的服務價廉物美，使用非常方便，在中國任何地方都可以使用。他還將「機會均等」介紹給高質量的英語學習者。在網上有一些免費的樣品，每個人都可以試用。產品價格不高，所以每個人多多少少地可以使用。所有想提高英語的人應該來試一下。我非常認真自信地來講這些話的。
另外一個非常好的特徵就是說寶堂建立了一個可以傾聽客戶反饋的技術框架系統。從開始的時候，說寶堂就鼓勵他們的使用者及時給他們反饋，可以讚揚、也可以抱怨，也可以提供建議，甚至可以建議內容和主題！說寶堂的課程開發設計完全是在用戶體驗的基礎上進行的。他們將以客戶的需求為目的：這集中體現在新的WEB2.0裡。現在，試問有沒有其他的公司做到這一點？
在中國，找到一位優秀的英語老師很不容易，他必須是流利的本土語言者，可以來聽你所說的並及時給你糾正你的發音、水平和語法，也可以在你的學習周期和和你便利學習的時間內教你！如果要達到那樣的水平的私人老師將會是一大巨大的開支！而說寶堂把這個變為每個人都可以實現的夢想——這也是說寶堂為中國社會商業教育的進步和發展所做的另一個偉大的貢獻！（更多信息，請訪問http://www.saybot.com）
IDIT: Saybot can help you learing spoken English simplely
Idit Harel is founder, Chairman and CEO of MaMaMedia. Idit Harel has been developing and introducing new-media technologies to kids since the early 80's - the earliest days of the personal computer. One of the first graduates of Harvard's Education Technology Program and the MIT Media Lab, Harel founded MaMaMedia in 1995, in NYC
Question: In China, more and more people are studying English. About 350 million people per year! But a lot of people still cannot speak English well. What do you think the key problem is?
Idit: In order to learn how to speak, a person needs to practice speaking on a regular basis. Most Chinese English-learners do not practice speaking often enough. They have no good contexts for doing that. Learning to read and write can be helpful in the English language learning process, but it is not sufficient for learning to how to speak English. In addition, a person needs to practice listening to English speakers in order to learn how to speak. Finally, in order to speak really well, people must practice listening to many different kinds of accents and pronunciations (e.g., American, British, or Australian; children, adults, or various professionals) and to different kinds of styles of speaking (street-speak, academic-speak, media-speak) and learn to respond and express themselves accordingly to fit with various contexts and situations.
Question: Even among the people in China who received high education, the spoken-English level is much lower than that of young children in any native English-speaking country. What do you think is the essential reason for this phenomenon? Is it the different way they learn English? Any other reasons come to mind?
Idit: Even among the people who received their higher education in China, we can see that they may be able to read and write well, but have limitations in their ability to speak English fluently and clearly. They lack practicing their speaking in meaningful, engaging, and fun contexts. We know Chinese people can learn to speak English well. For example, look at those who came to study in the USA – they speak really well! So it’s possible!
Question: Following the traditional way of teaching English in China, we are often taught to recite and memorize a lot of words, and we do many word-by-word speaking exercises. A lot of people study English words for tests. They may do well on these tests, and their vocabulary may be large, but they cannot speak English in their daily lives. What do you think is the reason for this? What’s the best way to grasp the 「real」 spoken English?
Idit: Learning to memorize and recite English words in a systematic way is not all bad. English language learners do need to memorize words and practice them through word-by-word speaking exercises, in order to enlarge and enrich their vocabulary. But it must be integrated with additional, daily practicing of speaking with someone real, talking about fun topics from their real daily lives, or work-related topics, or listening and chatting about their interests and hobbies.
I believe that the combination of the three systems – 1) memorizing words, 2) word-by-word speaking exercises, and 3) applying all newly-learned words immediately to real conversational situations or real problem-solving situation -- is the best way to grasp the 「real」 spoken English.
This philosophy of learning is what I call 「learning by doing.」 My many years of research as a learning theorist indicate that learners, young and old, cannot really appropriate information and own any new knowledge (in mathematics, sciences, technology, business, or in language arts) unless they are thoroughly engaged in hands-on activities that are real and personally-meaningful to them.
Question: Which do you think is more important: 1) receiving good training in the memorizing of words, or 2) in the speaking of real English words and sentences? How we can learn to speak 「real」 English more easily and more simply?
Idit: We learn a new language best by speaking it. Speaking, speaking, speaking it. But: not just speaking to myself! Language learners, who are interested in learning to speak the language, must have a native speaker who is listening to them, and responds to what they say in a meaningful and relevant way; a native speaker who can relate to the content of the conversation, but can also relate to their specific grammatical mistakes and mispronunciation, and has the pedagogical knowledge of correcting and inspiring their speaking, coaching and taking the learner to the next level.
Any spoken-language learner must experience often, daily, a conversation that is meaningful to him/her, or else they』ll quickly get un-engaged and stop the learning process.
So it is about the 「Learning by Doing」 theory, but, we also say 「It takes two to Tango.」 What I mean is that it takes two people to learn to speak a language. Any learner needs a partner on the other side that is a native speaker (an expert Tango dancer), who is also a good listener, who understands the learner’s interests and motivation, and can be a good coach who knows how to continue to engage the learner in the spoken-language learning dance!
Question: There are many successful English-Language Training Schools in China, such as, the New Orient and Wall Street English. What do you regard as the best thing about these training schools? How do they enhance the teaching of spoken English?
Idit: I have never experienced these specific training centers and their learning environments. So I cannot speak about them from first-hand experience. What I heard from others is that they cost a lot and that they are not so good in producing results, that is producing fluent English Speakers.
I think Wall Street English is known for its 「English Corners」 where you can pay to come to speak real English with real people – so that’s a good feature. I also think Wall Street English uses technology, I mean software. Although I never tried it, I do believe that using technology is important for 「Learning by Doing.」 If done right, it can contribute greatly to the spoken-language learning process.
Question: As you know, we teach Spoken English at Saybot in an entirely new way. It is a revolutionary approach to teaching and learning any Spoken language by using advanced technology and the Internet. Moreover, we designed all the products and services especially for Chinese learners of spoken English. Saybot uses the best technological features for participation and interactivity for assisting Chinese people learn how to speak 「real」 English. What we do is far different form the traditional teaching of English in China. What do you think of this software and the overall Saybot experience?
Idit: The Saybot Company is approaching the teaching of spoken-English in an entirely new way. In fact, it developed a new and revolutionary approach to teaching and learning any Spoken language. Saybot integrates the most powerful and well-known learning theories with powerful new technology in the best possible ways -- to enhance the two key features I discussed earlier: 1) 「Learning by Doing,」 and 2) 「It Takes Two to Tango.」
Moreover, Saybot designed all its first-generation services especially for Chinese learners of spoken English. In addition, Saybot uses the best technological features for creating active participation and interactivity for assisting Chinese people in their learning how to speak 「real」 English that is relevant for their lives here and now – because they want to find a better job, or travel abroad, succeed in their businesses, or get high TOFEL scores.
What Saybot does do is so far different form the traditional teaching of English in China and from the other organizations like New Oriental and Wall Street English. But on the other hand - it is also complimentary of these other methods. It can work well together, and that』 the beauty of it.
The overall Saybot experience has all the important characteristics that are absolutely essential for quality spoken-language learning: 1) Practicing your real-life speaking; 2) Someone listens and corrects you based on your mistakes; 3) Content is fun, engaging and relevant to your life; 4) It is affordable and easy to use - anytime and everywhere. All you need is an Internet connection and a headset! This is fantastic.
Question: Let’s look into the future, and think about the ways in which Saybot technology and methodology can transform and improve the learning of spoken English in China. Will our technology replace the traditional learning? Or do you think the traditional way will eventually be found better or relatively easier for Chinese people? Is there a contradiction between the two methods, or will they eventually compliment each other?
Idit: Saybot can create a serious revolution, for years to come, in the ways Chinese people approach their learning of spoken English. Its services are so affordable, and easy to access and use, from any where in China. This will also introduce 「equal opportunity」 to high-quality English learning. It’s on the Net. There are free samples. Everyone can try it. The cost is not high. So eventually everyone will use it in one way or another. All the individuals who would like to improve their English speaking should give it a try. I am serious.
Another nice feature is that Saybot created a technology infrastructure that listens to their customers. From the very beginning, Saybot encourage its customers to send feedback – to praise, to complain, to suggest improvements, and even to suggest content and topics! And Saybot is committed to developing curriculum based on the ideas and demand of their customers. They 「pull」 not just 「push」 their own ideas – which is what the new Web 2.0 is all about. Now, show me another company that teaches English in this way?
It is so hard to find a good English teacher in China, who is a fluent native speaker; who can listens and corrects you based on your accent, level, grammar; who can coach you on your terms and at your convenient time! Private tutoring like this, at this level of quality and expertise costs a fortune! And Saybot makes it available for all – which is another one of their great contribution to Chinese society and the development of its citizens, its businesses, and its education.(For more, please visit http://www.saybot.com)
(責任編輯：雷濤)