Interview of Tvorogov brothers

Tvorogov brothers《The bears are running in the forest》, 2020

Aleksey Tvorogov 與 Anton Tvorogov 是來自俄羅斯莫斯科的兩位年輕藝術家，他們 1988 年出生於俄羅斯莫斯科，Aleksey 是哥哥，Anton 是弟弟，只比哥哥晚出生 15 分鐘。

Anton and Aleksey Tvorogov are artists based in Moscow. They were born in 1988, Aleksey is elder, Anton is younger, and only have 15 minutes difference.

Aleksey and Anton Tvorogov童年時期的 Tvorogov brothers（特沃羅戈夫兄弟）並沒有什麼特別明確的愛好，畫畫、運動、舞臺劇都參與了很多，如果說最大的愛好可能要數電子遊戲了，尤其是需要合作通關的遊戲。特沃羅戈夫兄弟二人考入了不同的大學，分別學習經濟學和市場營銷，他們都知道這並不是他們喜歡的專業。雖然沒有進入藝術學校，但他們總是畫畫、做雕塑，儘管說過那不是他們的愛好。Tvorogov brothers didn't have brightly expressed hobbies when they were kids. They drew a little, acted a little, did sports a little, but didn't really get into anything. Probably their main hobby was video games, especially cooperative ones.They entered different universities to study economics and marketing. They both knew it wasn't truly their way. They didn't go to art school, but they always drew something, sculpted something, although as they said it wasn't their passion.Tvorogov brothers《Bird is waiting for the boat》, 2020一個重要的日子是他們 21 歲的生日，雙胞胎的大哥送給他們一套初學者繪畫套裝（包括畫架、畫布、顏料和畫筆），大哥顯然注意到了他們對藝術的某種渴望，並決定鼓勵他們堅持創作。於是在 2010 年，21 歲的特沃羅戈夫兄弟第一次接觸到了油畫創作。因為只有一套畫筆和一個畫板，於是他們開始了第一次協同創作。

因為在不同的大學學習，已經有了各自的朋友，並且經常分別畫一些不同的作品。但是在 21 歲的那個契機之後，課後他們會花費越來越多的時間聚在一起進行創作，對特沃羅戈夫兄弟來說，有趣的不僅僅是繪畫本身，而是一個共同想法的誕生。經過一段時間的聯繫和磨合後，他們經常能想到一個能激發二人共同靈感的圖像。

A significant day was their 21st birthday. Their older brother presented them a set for a beginning artist (1 easel, 1 canvas, a set of paints and brushes). He apparently noticedin them some kind of craving for art and decided to encourage. Thus they saw oil paints for the first time at the age of 21. There was only one canvas and oneeasel in the set and they started painting on it together.

They studied at different universities, and already had different friends, but after studying, they together began to invent something, discuss and paint. It was interesting not so much the painting itself, but the birth of a joint idea, when they came up with an image that would inspire both of them. Before that they always drew something different/separately.

Tvorogov brothers workingin their studio, 2020大學畢業之後，他們各自從事自己的專業工作，只在下班後畫畫。2014 年，25 歲的兄弟二人決定辭掉工作，只專注於藝術。那時候我們沒有合作畫廊，沒有 instagram，沒有賣過任何作品，不認識其他藝術家。我們要感謝我們的父母，雖然知道他們很擔心我們，但那時候他們沒有勸阻我們。

那時候的我們，對藝術並沒有特別大的興趣，只是喜歡兩個人一起畫畫這個活動。不過漸漸地，我們更深入的了解了當代藝術，並且去了MOMA(莫斯科現代藝術博物館)的自由工作室學習，我們的創作也漸漸有了起色和一定知名度。開始參加展覽，並結識了其他藝術家。感謝社交網絡讓我們可以與世界各地的人們分享我們的作品，結識朋友，進行交流，並進行聯合項目。

After the university they went to work in our specialties, but continued to paint afterwork. And at one point, they quit and decided to focus only on art. They were 25 years old (2014). At that time they didn't work with galleries, didn't have Instagram, didn't sell any works, didn't have any artists around them. They are grateful to their parents that they did not dissuade them at that time, although they are sure that their parents were worried about them. 

At that time they had little interest in art as such, they just liked this activity of ours. But gradually they delved into it, learned about contemporary artists, went to study at 『Free Workshops’school at MOMA (Moscow Museum of Modern Art). They started participating in shows and met other artists. Social networks allowed them to share our work with a widerange of people around the world, get acquainted with them, communicate and make joint projects.

Tvorogov brothers《Feeding the head》, 2018Tvorogov brothers《You are here, in my heart》, 2019Tvorogov brothers《Bear is showing biceps》, 2020Tvorogov brothers《The bear is eating watermelon》, 2020

Interview of Tvorogov brothers

MZ : 毛壯 | AAB : 特沃羅戈夫兄弟

毛壯：看到你們的臉書在 2019年後就很少更新，2020 年開始更新 Instagram，並且這時候上傳的新作品，仿佛風格產生了一些變化。例如都是黑白色調，更多的兒童與卡通元素。這是為什麼，有沒有什麼契機或者故事？
特沃羅戈夫兄弟：我們停止更新臉書，是因為感覺它並不能作為一個藝術平臺，更傾向是一個社交和信息平臺。
我們的作品並不只有單一的風格，我們曾經花費了很長時間用來研究色彩，我們喜歡為每一幅作品尋找最正確的色彩解決方案。在一段時間裡，色彩氛圍是我們作品的關鍵元素。我們在創作中，也會為角色設計很多草圖，有時候還會雕刻一些東西作為繪畫的參考，以便於更好地理解透視、體積、光影效果等等。漸漸地，我們遠離了繪製素描，創作上做了越來越多的雕塑和布面繪畫。這個過程的改變，我們使用了更豐富的材料，並且創作過程也變得更有觸感，也帶給我們更多的自由和更深入的工作沉浸感。此外，我們的作品與角色的聯繫也變得更加緊密，在這個過程中，我們逐漸發現對於一些圖像來說，我們真的不是必須使用色彩，因為色彩給作品增加了額外的一層感覺，有時會使我們分心。
所以說我們作品風格與視覺語言的變化，主要原因是雕塑的實踐與運用。通過觸覺，我們很快就抓住了角色的基本特徵。也可以說，我們「徒手」創作出了筆下的圖像。

不過我們並沒有一個目標去只創作一種視覺風格的作品，我們也可以同時創作多個不同風格的作品。就例如，帶有雕塑感的黑白色調油畫，以及紙本的彩色水彩作品。

Tvorogov brothers《Frogs》, acrylic on canvas, 2019Tvorogov brothers《Royal couple is crossing the sky》, watercolor on paper, 2020Tvorogov brothers《Frog with a sword》, Oil on canvas, 2020MZ：I find out that your Facebook stop update at the end of 2019, and start then, the works you upload at Instagram has been a noticeable change, like give up color, more cartoon-like and childhood theme.What happened, and what inspire you to make a difference?AAB：We stopped Facebook because did not see it as an art platform. Now for us FB is more social and informational platform.We don't have a single style in which we work. We worked with color for quite a longtime and we loved searching the right color solutions. Color atmosphere was the key of our works for some period. We did a lot of sketches for a character design also. Sometimes we sculpted something as references for paintings for a better understanding of perspective, volume, light and shadow. Gradually we moved away from drawing, and did more and more sculpting and painting. The process became more tactile, more material. It was a pretty organic way of changing. It gave us more freedom and a deeper immersion into the work. And the connection to the character is much stronger. We found that for some images we don't really need color, because it creates an additional layer of perception that distracts us.So the main reason of the change, of the development of our visual language was the sculpting practice. Through the tactile we quickly catch the basic features of the character. We can say that images are literally created by hands.

But we don't have a goal to stick to one visual style. We can do very different stylistically works in parallel. Now, for example, grayscale oil paintings with a sculptural vibes and little colorful watercolor works on paper.

毛壯：關於這個新的系列有沒有什麼介紹或者背景故事，作品中的兩隻小熊有沒有名字，是否指代了您們兄弟二人。很多作品中有狩獵的場景，它們是在捕獵還是在做遊戲。作品的背景又是什麼？特沃羅戈夫兄弟：我們把這個系列稱作「在桌旁的熊」（The bears at the table），畫的是兩隻小熊在桌子旁做著各種普通的事情，我們希望能突出展現作品中的各種日常行為。這個系列是受到日本詩歌（俳句）的啟發，它的極簡主義、苦行和冥想精神都深深地觸動到了我們。我們想表達的就是，非常簡單（或看似簡單）的事情或簡短的陳述，就足以讓觀眾沉浸在作品中，從而激發你的想像力。我們創作的每一幅畫作，作品中的小熊看起來很像，不過它們幾乎都不是相同的角色。它們沒有名字，因為我們想做的並不是講故事，而是關於日常的狀態。我們的繪畫可能在部分觀眾眼中像是童話故事的片段，風格類似卡通/定格動畫/木偶戲，但作品裡並沒有故事情節。我們喜歡特定的創作動機，但不希望把它們與作品直接聯繫起來。我們為作品中的角色都專門製作了雕塑，這會產生一些奇妙的感覺，例如看到他們躺在桌子上，沒有腿、破損、並且粘著麵包屑與頭髮，但當我們以它們為原型創作一幅畫時，它們又像童話角色一般鮮活的存在著，活著，並且有思想。所以從一方面來說，我們知道這都是我們虛構的角色，但從另一方面來說，我們像是被自己欺騙了，我們相信它們的存在。

即使是它們的作者（也許作者會受到更深的影響），知道它們是虛構角色，也並不會讓我們從它們的影響中解脫出來。基於所有這些，對於我們來說，它們無論是在遊戲還是在狩獵，或者它們是否有仇敵或獵物並不重要。對我們來說，有機會去思考它們，去想像所有這些事情，去捕捉它們的狀態就足夠了。

plasticine bears at the tableTvorogov brothers《Bear is reading》, 2020plasticine bears without legsTvorogov brothers《Bears with blowguns》, 2020MZ：Please tell us something about the new series with the 2 bears, are they twins too? Do they have names? Are they really hunting or playing games? What kind of world do they live in?AAB：The last series with the bears we called 『The bears at the table』. Paintings where bears just do some ordinary things at the table. Everyday actions are highlighted, become the focus of our attention. We are inspired by Japanese poems (haiku). Its minimalistic, ascetic and meditative spirit deeply resonates with us. When very short, simple (or seemingly simple) statement or thing is enough to immerse yourself into the image, to activate your imaginary.The bears are almost always different. For every painting we create new one, they look alike but different. They don’t have names, bacause it is not about story telling, it is about the state (condition). Paintings may look like fragments of a fairy tale, cartoon/stop motion movie, puppet show. But there is no story line here. We like specific motives, without wishing to connect them into the plot. All the characters are sculpted as references for paintings and there is a little bit strange feeling about it for us. We see them lying on the table without legs, damaged, with the hair and crumbs sticking to them, but when we create a painting they are really like a fairy tale characters, alive, thoughtful. So from one side we understand it’s fictional but from the other side we are like tricked by ourselves, we believe them.

It maybe concerns all the fictional characters. Knowing that they are unreal does not free you from being affected by them. Even if you are an author of them (maybe you are even more affected as an author). Based on all this for us it does not really matter whether they play or they are hunting, or maybe they have some antagonist. For us it is more than enough to have the opportunity to think about it, to imagine all these things, to catch their state.

毛壯：你們的創作過程，都是從泥塑開始，之後再進行繪畫嗎
特沃羅戈夫兄弟：每幅作品的創作過程都不盡相同，以往當我們創作平面卡通風格作品時，我們不進行雕刻，只是畫線條然後上色。但現在我們主要使用混合技術，角色先用粘土塑造而成，然後用紙、織物等材質來創作道具，之後搭建場景（有時甚至用水來創造河流、湖泊的質感），尋找合適的燈光，然後拍很多照片。我們會在選擇一張合適的照片，並在電腦中編輯照片，例如在照片中增加一些元素，有時候還會用到 3D 建模軟體來編輯照片，最後在畫布上完成作品創作。

所有的創作步驟：包括泥塑、搭建場景、攝影、編輯、繪畫都是我們在長期實踐中發展出的創作方式，每一步我們都很享受其中。同時，從一個階段到下一個階段，我們會不斷為作品增加一些特殊的東西，直到最後完成繪畫。

Tvorogov brothers《Fox is lit》, 2020from sculpture to photo to painting

Tvorogov brothers《The fox in the water》, 2020building the scene using fabric, paper cuttings and waterMZ：What is your process of creating a painting. Do you always make clay figurines first, then start painting?AAB：It happens in different ways. When we create cartoon/flat like paintings we don’t sculpt, just draw and then color it. But now we mainly mix techniques, characters are sculpted from plasticine, something is cut from paper or fabric. Sometime we use water to make rivers and lakes. We create a scene, look for suitable lighting, and take a lot of photos. Then we choose one, edit it in a program on the computer, we can draw something, or use 3d modeling programm and then we make a painting.

All the steps (clay sculpting, drawing, photo shooting, editing, painting) are like autonomous practices we love. At the same time they cumulatively add something special from one stage to another, till the final painting.

毛壯：你們作品中無論之前的人物，還是如今的小熊，都創作了很多身體較胖的角色，請問有什麼寓意嗎？

特沃羅戈夫兄弟：有時候取決於動物們原本的形象，例如在自然界中熊本身就是體型龐大的動物。不過主要是靠直覺，當我們進行創作時，我們的意識會告訴我們它們應該是這樣的形象。這個問題我們沒有明確的答案。我們未來計劃中的角色也是非常不同的，既有胖嘟嘟的，也有纖瘦的。

Tvorogov brothers《Untitled》, 2019

Tvorogov brothers《Ryaba》, 2018MZ：Whether the human and animals before, or the bears today, I find out the characters in your works are always chubby, are there a background or a story about it, or any meaning?

AAB：Sometimes it depends on the original animal. The bear in nature is quite a massive animal. But mostly it's something intuitive. When you work on a form, you realize that it should be this way, and not another. We have no definite answer here.

We would say there is no strong rule here, we have both chubby/massive and slim characters. The characters we plan for the future are very different.

毛壯：你們的作品是自傳體嗎，作品中的2隻小熊是否象徵著兩位藝術家，作品想表達什麼？

特沃羅戈夫兄弟：我們不覺得這些作品是自傳式的，不過當你創作一件雕塑或者一幅畫時，你會進入角色的狀態，就好像你正在經歷作品中的場景。我們的作品大多是日常的場景，所以無論年齡大小，每個人都可能從作品中想像到自己的生活。

Tvorogov brothers《Bear is drawing》, 2020Tvorogov brothers《The bear with the cat》, 2020MZ：Is your work autobiographical? Are the 2 bears a symbol of your childhood?

AAB：We would not say that the works are autobiographical. But when you work on a painting or sculpture, you move into the state of the character, as if you are experiencing this scene. These are usual scenes in which everyone can imagine themselves, regardless of age.

毛壯：一幅名為《The bear with a photo》的作品，它在看什麼？你們的作品一般基於記憶、生活還是想像？

特沃羅戈夫兄弟：我們感覺它在看自己親近之人或物的照片。我們的作品可以基於記憶、生活片段、幻想所有這些方面，我們更關注的是動機，很簡單，但基於某種原因能打動人的瞬間。常常是非常平凡、又非常明顯的瞬間，似乎沒有什麼可以隱藏在那裡，但你卻感到有些無法用語言形容的情緒在那裡。當我們從創作中獲得那種感覺的時候，我們就會感到非常快樂。

Tvorogov brothers《The bear with a photo》, 2020MZ：There is a work named 'The bear with a photo', what is the photo he looking at? Are your works based on everyday life, memory or imagination?

AAB：We think there is someone or something close, dear for him on this photo.

Our works can be based on all these things. We are looking for a motive, very simple but touching by some reason. So ordinary and obvious that it seems nothing can hide there, but you feel something unsaid. We are happy when we manage to achieve that feeling from the work.

毛壯：看到你們facebook上一個製作泥塑的視頻，好奇你們繪畫時如何分工合作，你們一起創作時，會在什麼階段進行簡單的溝通嗎，還是會非常默契，無需太多溝通就能完美配合完成作品？
特沃羅戈夫兄弟：我們不一起同時創作一件小作品，那個視頻是個例外。例如畫一幅很大的畫，我們會把它分為左右兩個部分，每個人各自負責一半的創作。小尺寸的作品會由我們之中某個人單獨完成，但我們創作之前有照片/雕塑作為參考，這個參考物是我們兩人都認可同意的，所以對於完成的作品不會有分歧或不愉快。我們在創作過程中都會讓對方看一下，然後對是否滿意發表一些意見。

我們合作創作中更重要的部分是雕塑，例如，在我們討論完一幅畫的想法後，我們其中一個人開始為它塑型（另一個人這時在為另一幅畫作製作泥塑，或者為作品繪製背景、道具等繪畫前的準備工作）。在這個過程中，我們會互相展示創作進度，然後思考、更正、注釋，並傳達給對方進行修改。我們會持續這個過程，直到我們兩個人都滿意為止。我們是兩個人，但作為藝術家，我們是一體的。

Tvorogov brothers working togetherMZ：I saw a video in your facebook (https://fb.watch/3dsrcrWvLi/), How do you divide your works when creating paintings and sculptures? Do you communicate when you work together with a art piece, or there are some twins magic?AAB：We don’t do small things together. This video is an exception. If the painting is large we divide it on right and left part, and each of us works on his part.Small canvases we paint separately. But we have the photo/sculpture reference which is approved by both of us so there is never unpleasant surprise about what is painted. We only ask each other to look at the work and give a comment whetherhe likes how it is going.

The more important part about working together is sculpting. For example, after we discussed the idea for a painting one of us start sculpting characters for it(the other brother at that time sculpts character for another painting, or drawing background, or cuts trees from paper or doing something else). During the process we show each other the intermediate results, comment and correct, can pass it to each other for editing. We do it untill we both are satisfied. There are two of us, but as an artist we are one.

毛壯：你們在創作時，有沒有產生什麼分歧，會如何解決？

特沃羅戈夫兄弟：分歧是很少發生的。偶爾發生可能是因為涉及到一些很小的事情，例如角色頭部的大小，或我們拍照的角度。這時候我們會做一些微調，看看哪個最好，往往最後都可以達成共識。我們在繪畫和雕塑上都有相當不同的風格，但在創作過程中，它們會變成一個整體。

Tvorogov brothers《The bears are taking aim》, 2020MZ：When you working together, do you have anydifferences or contradictions? What are the differences always about? How do you resolve them?

AAB：Disagreements are very rare. This may concern, for example, the size of the character's heador the angle from which we take the picture. Just make a few variants and see what's best. It is always possible to come to a common vision. We have rather different styles in drawing and sculpting but in the process it comes to a single piece.

毛壯：如今很多年輕藝術家都受到奈良美智、村上隆、Mark Ryden、KAWS 等藝術家的影響很大，請問你們有哪些喜愛的藝術家，以及對你們的創作產生較大影響的藝術家有哪些？
特沃羅戈夫兄弟：我們也很喜歡這些藝術家，尤其是奈良美智。其他我們喜愛的藝術家包括：Edward Hopper, Alex Katz, 大谷工作室, Peter Doig, Klara Kristalova, Rinus Van de Velde, Trey Abdella, TIDE, Anna Park, Danica Lundy, Szabolcs Bozo, Salman Toor 等等。

其他藝術家的作品是會給我們一些啟發，但影響我們最深的大部分都來自其他文化領域，例如電影、卡通、電子遊戲、復古插圖，尤其是是一些書籍插圖，例如來自俄羅斯插畫家 Ivan Bilibin（1876-1942）, Yuri Vasnetsov（1900-1973）的插圖作品。

left pic: Ivan Bilibin《Illustration for Contes de l'isba: Ivan-Tsarevich and the Firebird》,1930；right pic: Yuri Vasnetsov《Okay》,1965MZ：I talk to many young artists before, and they've been inspired by artists like Takashi Murakami, Yoshitomo Nara, Mark Ryden, Kaws and so on. Who are your favorite artists? And who have influenced your works before?AAB：We love these artists too, especially Yoshitomo Nara. We have a lot of favorite artists. Edward Hopper, Alex Katz, Otani Workshop, Peter Doig, Klara Kristalova, Rinus Van de Velde, Trey Abdella, TIDE, Anna Park, Danica Lundy, Szabolcs Bozo, Salman Toor and many many more.

Artists inspire us and impress. But the more influence goes from the other culturalfields. Movies and cartoons, video games, old illustrations especially books illustration (Ivan Bilibin, Yuri Vasnetsov).

毛壯：我們平時很少接觸到來自俄羅斯的年輕藝術家，請問您能否推薦一些來自俄羅斯的年輕藝術家？

特沃羅戈夫兄弟：我們很喜歡的俄羅斯藝術家有 Evgeny Antufiev、Ivan Gorshkov、Aleksey Martins、Dima Rebus、Anatoly Akue 等。

MZ：We know less about young artists from Russia. Can you introduce us some great young artists from Russia?

AAB：We like Evgeny Antufiev, Ivan Gorshkov, Aleksey Martins, Dima Rebus, Anatoly Akue and many more.

特沃羅戈夫兄弟：今年會有一些個展與群展計劃。此外，今年還計劃創作更多的雕塑作品。

AAB：We plan solo and group shows for this year. And we are going to make more sculptures than last year.

圖片 Photo | Aleksey and Anton Tvorogov

社交媒體 Instagram | @tvorogov.brothers

編輯 Edit | 毛壯 Mao Zhuang

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