Jeff Lucas on how to thrive when life doesn't turn out as planned
傑夫.盧卡斯訪談：當人生規劃落空時生命怎樣健壯成長
Hardships and lockdowns may not be what most of us would choose, but popular author and speaker Jeff Lucas wants to remind Christians that these are the very places where we can find both purpose and meaning.
如果可以選擇，我們大多數人可能並不願意隔離，然而暢銷書作家、演說家傑夫.盧卡斯想提醒基督徒，這些正是我們可以尋找生命目標和意義的地方。
In his new book, "Singing in Babylon: Finding Purpose in Life's Second Choices", Jeff takes inspiration from Daniel and his life in exile in Babylon to show that, in his faithfulness to God, he was able to thrive in this most unlikely of settings.
在他的新書《在巴比倫歡唱：從人生的第二次選擇中尋找目標》中，從但以理和他在巴比倫被擄的生活中傑夫獲得靈感，但以理憑藉著對於上帝的忠心，得以在那種最不可能的環境之中剛強壯膽。
Fittingly, the book has been chosen for the second Big Church Read getting underway across the UK on 17 February.
這本書非常合宜地入選成為英國2月17日將要開始的第二屆「大教會閱讀」活動的書目。
Jeff speaks to Christian Today about how he has learned to thrive in those places of disappointment and why he thinks a certain level of disillusionment is healthy in life.
傑夫接受今日基督徒訪談時談到，他怎樣學會在那些令人失望的環境中得到操練，以及他為什麼認為，生活理想的幻滅在某種程度上對於生命的建造是有益處的。
CT: The book seems very timely. Was it in incubation before the pandemic started or is it a response?
今日基督徒：這本書看來很及時，這是一種回應，還是在疫情開始之前就開始醞釀呢？
Jeff: It was a couple of years before the pandemic was even on the horizon that I started planning this book. The subtitle is 'Finding Purpose in Life's Second Choices' and everyone's living in a second choice world at the moment with all the constrictions and fears we're facing. So yes, it does seem really timely but I can't take any credit for a quick response because it was already in the timeline!
傑夫：在疫情出現之前幾年，我就開始策劃這本書了。副標題為「找到人生第二次選擇的目標」，並且面對著生活中各種的侷促和恐懼，我們每個人都生活在一個可以第二次選擇的世界裡。所以是的，這本書似乎真的很合時宜，但卻不能歸功於我的快速反應，因為是既定的時間安排。
CT: Have you found living out this 'second choice' life challenging?
今日基督徒：你覺得活出『第二次選擇』的生命具有挑戰性嗎？
Jeff: At a trivial level we all experience our first and second choices every day, and there have definitely been seasons in my life - whether it's concerns about family sickness or other challenges that I've navigated as a church leader - where it's definitely felt like my second choice!
傑夫：從一個瑣碎的層面上，我們每天都經歷著優先次序的選擇，同時我們的生命也肯定會經歷不同的季節，不同的光景——是面對著對於家庭對於病痛的關注，還或許是我作為教會領袖所面臨的其他挑戰——這些就像是我的第二次選擇。
The message of the book is not to be glib, as if to say, 'oh, I'm so thrilled I'm in my second choice.' That's not what I'm suggesting. But when we look at people in the Bible like Daniel, he was led off to exile somewhere between the age of 12 and 18, when he was very young, and he came from a privileged background. He had to live in Babylon, a city he didn't want to be living in and so he essentially spent his whole life in a lockdown of sorts. But ultimately he thrived in this place and there are lessons for us there.
書中所要表達的並不是膚淺的，像是在說「看哪，我能夠重新選擇，這真是太興奮了。」這不是我所要建議的。但當我們看到聖經人物但以理，當他幼年之時，十二歲到十八歲左右的年紀裡被擄流亡，他出身高貴，卻被迫居住在巴比倫，一個他不願意生活的地方，而且基本上在那裡，他在很封閉的狀態下度過了一生的歲月。然而最終他卻在這樣的環境下活出了剛強的生命，並留給我們許多寶貴的教訓。
What I've come to appreciate is that much of the Bible has been written by people who were in lockdown, whether that's Joseph who spent time in prison, or the Apostle Paul who likewise wrote his prison epistles while in the lockdown of house arrest.
我現在能理解到，《聖經》中很多內容是由被關起來的人寫作的，無論是曾被法老關押的約瑟，還是軟禁在家中同樣在寫作獄中書信的使徒保羅。
When people say 'where's God gone now?', I understand that kind of questioning because we do believe in an interventionist God, and yet much of the Bible was written by people who were experiencing very severe restrictions.
當人們說「上帝現在哪兒去了？」我理解這樣的懷疑，因為我們確實地相信上帝可以幹預這一切，然而聖經中的很多作者卻有著許多經歷非常嚴苛限制的體驗。
CT: Do you think the pandemic might have been a shake-up for Christians in the West where we have been used to a very kind of 'comfy' Christianity?
今日基督徒：你認為疫情的嚴峻對於西方國家的基督徒可能是一次震動嗎？我們已經習慣於成為一種『舒適』基督徒了。
Jeff: I'm hoping the Church doesn't go back to normal because what many churches have demonstrated is that we can do things differently and we can be flexible. For all of us, change and flexibility can be a challenge, but I really do hope we can come out from this shaken up with the reality that we need to take responsibility for ourselves.
傑夫：我現在希望教會不要回歸常態，因為許多教會已經見證了，我們可以改變做事的方式，我們可以靈活應對。對於我們所有人來說，改變和靈活性可能是一種挑戰，但我真的希望我們能從這次的震動中經受考驗，面對現實，我們需要承擔自身的責任。
Because when everything was normal, it was possible just to show up at church, sing a couple of songs, work our way through the service and be spoon-fed some information. I think that this kind of casual approach to faith won't survive this challenge. The pandemic has demanded that we put down spiritual roots ourselves.
因為當一切如常不變的時候，我們有可能只是在教堂裡露幾次臉，唱幾首詩，依靠自己的辦法做一些服侍，然後再消極接受一些屬靈的餵養。我認為這種對待信仰的隨意方式是不足以使我們勝過挑戰的。疫情的嚴峻需要我們親自來栽培屬靈的種子。
Jeff Lucas with his new book "Singing in Babylon", which will feature in the second Big Church Read in February 2021.
傑夫盧卡斯和他的新書「在巴比倫歡唱」，將在2021年2月份在第二大教會閱讀活動中擔任主導。
And I also think it gives us the opportunity to think through what messages we tell young people. One of my grandsons was told at high school recently that 'if you can dream it, you can do it', and it's really not true! Because there are probably 100,000 young boys out there who want to play for Chelsea and not many of them are going to do that!
同時，我也認為，這樣的環境給予我們機會，認真思考我們向年輕人所傳遞的信息。最近，我的一個孫子，他在上高中，他聽到這樣的話「如果你敢想，你就敢幹。」這真是太不真實了，因為大概有十萬年輕小夥都願意為切爾西隊效力踢球，但沒有多少人能真正實現願望。
And I wonder if, at a serious level, we are guilty of setting young people up for a first choice world, and in the Church of setting young people up to believe that if they just stay faithful to God, write the cheque and put it in the plate, and read the Bible - preferably Leviticus - first thing in the morning, that they're going to get a first choice world. Because again and again, the Bible is just filled with second choice stories.
從一個嚴肅的角度，我想知道我們是否感到愧疚，為年輕人預備了這個世界上首選的生活，同時讓年輕人在教會裡選擇相信，只要記得寫支票並且放在盤子裡，每天早上第一件事記得讀聖經——最好是利未記，這樣做就能保持向上帝的虔誠，使他們做出優先的選擇。因為聖經中一次又一次，充滿了關於次選的故事。
Ultimately, I believe that God is the redeemer of that which He is not the architect of. Personally I don't take the view that God sent the pandemic, but I do take the view that coming out of the pandemic we can be truly shaken up and be more mature in our faith as a result.
歸根結底，我相信上帝在他人所建造之物上施行救贖。就我個人而言，我認為並不是上帝帶來了疫情，但我確信，從疫情的試煉當中我們得著真正的操練，從而使得我們的信仰更加成熟。
CT: There seem to be so many churches out there giving people the idea that if they convert to Christianity and have enough faith, that they're going to have the dream life and abundance.
今日基督徒：好像有很多教會在那裡向人們宣講，如果他們歸信耶穌，並有足夠的信心，他們就能實現夢想得到富足。
Jeff: The prosperity gospel message is a bunch of tosh and it's about time that we grew up and realised that even a cursory glance through the Bible shows us that any expectation of the dream life is just not grounded in truth. Sadly, some of this stuff is very directly linked with people giving money to those who hawk that kind of message and tell them that they are going to be blessed as a result.
傑夫：成功神學的信息是一無是處的，我們是時候該成熟並意識到，只要粗略地縱覽聖經便可以發現，任何美夢成真的應許都是沒有真理依據的。可悲的是，人們投資給了那些向他們兜售這種信息，並告訴他們因此就會獲得祝福的人，其中的一些東西和這種選擇有非常直接的關係。
We really need to say that this is not the Gospel. Yes, God does want to bless us in a variety of ways, but it's an insult to the Church in the Two-Thirds World to suggest that Jesus is the pathway to the dream life - and it's an insult to Scripture. Just read Daniel's story. He was blessed with power and the king of Babylon gave him gifts, but to somehow suggest that this is a paradigm of expectation for every Christian is just a lie.
我們真的需要說，這不是福音。的確，上帝確實願意通過各樣方式賜福於我們，但在這世界上佔三分之二的教會在宣講耶穌是實現夢想生活的途徑，這是對於教會的侮辱，這也是對於聖經的侮辱。剛剛讀了但以理的故事。他受神的賜福大有能力，巴比倫王賜予他各樣禮物，但從某種意義上說，這也表明每個基督徒都盼望這個範本就只是個謊言。
CT: Coming down to the individual level, when disappointment comes and something didn't work out how we wanted it to, that can be a huge blow and we can struggle with the question of why God didn't intervene and make things turn out different. Do you have any answer for someone who may be asking the question of 'why did God allow me to go through something like this?'
今日基督徒：從個人層面來看，當我們的問題沒有按照所期望的得以解決，使我們感到失望時，這對我們可能是巨大的打擊，上帝為什麼不幹預，改變事態，我們會為這樣的問題而掙扎。有人可能會問「為什麼上帝允許我遭遇這樣的事情呢？」，你會怎樣回答呢？
Jeff: The question of 'why?' is a massive one and in trying to answer it, we could all too easily just end up with simplistic slogans. I do think that we need to be healthily disillusioned. I used to view disillusionment as an enemy because it normally leads to cynicism. But when you're disillusioned about something, you're divested of an illusion and so you can start to face reality as it actually is. So whether it's about church - which is not full of perfect people - or marriage or friendship and faith, we need to be healthily disillusioned and have a view of the Kingdom that recognises it is not the same as the 'Magic Kingdom'.
傑夫：「為什麼」這個問題是一個巨大的問題，我們很容易就以簡單化的口號來試圖結束回答。我確實認為有時需要放棄不健康的幻想。我曾經非常牴觸希望的幻滅，因為這常常會引發憤世嫉俗的情緒。但是當你對某種事物不抱幻想時，你就擺脫了這種幻想，因而可以面對現實，看到事情的本質。因此，無論是關於教會——那裡並不是充滿了完美的人——或者是關於婚姻， 友誼還是你的信仰，我們需要摒棄那些不切實際的希望，擁有健康的國度觀，因我們的國度並不是像」魔法王國」那樣。
The story in Daniel with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace is an incredible statement in this respect because they were facing this super-heated furnace and the king had already burned two Jewish rebels alive (Jeremiah 29), so this was not an idol threat. Yet faced with the prospect of that kind of suffering, they said that God was able to deliver them - the Hebrew actually says 'infinitely able'. And they went even further than that and said that even if He didn't, they still weren't going to bow the knee.
《但以理書》中記載沙德拉，米煞和亞伯尼哥在烈火窯中的故事是一個令人難以置信的見證，他們面對超級炙熱的火窯，並且王已經活活燒死了兩個猶太叛徒（參耶利米書29章），因此這不是來自假神的威脅，然而他們坦然面對這樣痛苦的預示，相信上帝能夠拯救他們——希伯來文直譯為「有無限的可能」。不僅如此，他們說，即或不然，他們仍然不會向偶像屈膝。
We see the tension of faith, that on the one hand has this utter conviction that the God who spoke the universe into being with the Word can actually intervene and change everything, while on the other hand saying that even if He doesn't do that, we're still not going to abandon our loyalty to Him. I've seen that modelled as a pastor countless times with people navigating long-term disabilities. They utterly believe God can heal them but they've also expressed the conviction that they will not gamble their faith on a particular outcome.
我們看到信心的張力，一方面我們要有徹底的確信，上帝用祂的話語創立世界，說有就有，命立就立，可以幹預和改變一切，而另一方面，即便上帝不這樣做，我們依然不會放棄對祂的信靠。作為一名牧師，在服侍長期殘疾人士的過程中，我曾無數次見證過，他們對於上帝完全的醫治權柄有全倍的信心，同時他們也確信，他們的信心不會建立在得醫治的特別結果之上。
It seems to me that whenever we're asking God to do something, we should have that posture. And that is not a lack of faith! Some of the people who teach the faith-prosperity stuff say that we should never pray 'if it be Your will' prayers and that we should be more demanding that. But that's really interesting because Jesus in Gethsemane said, "Not my will but Yours be done." So it's about submitting ourselves and saying 'God, I really believe You can do this but whatever You choose to do, I will trust You anyway'. The people who can say that in the face of great difficulties are the real heroes we should be celebrating.
在我看來，每當我們請求上帝做這做那時，我們都應該有這樣的心志。這並不是缺乏信心。某些宣揚成功哲學的人說，從不應該做出像「但依照你的旨意」這樣的禱告，而應該有更高的要求。這真是很有趣，因為主耶穌在客西馬尼園中所說的正是，「不要照我的意思，而要照你的意思」。所以應當交託我們自己，並且祈求「主啊，我真的相信你，你可以這樣做，但無論你選擇怎樣做，我都會信靠於你。」那些在巨大的困難面前能夠有這樣宣告的人是我們應該稱頌的真心英雄。
CT: In today's social media world, it could be quite easy to look at someone's glamorous Instagram feed and think that they got the first choice life!
今日基督徒：在現今這個充斥社交媒體的世界，從人們所關注迷人的訂閱號中，就不難看出他們所做出的人生選擇。
Jeff: I think when we're looking at Facebook and possibly salivating over pictures of someone else's breakfast - which there's a lot of on there! - we need to remember that we're getting the headlines but not the backstory. And that goes beyond social media, to our platforms and pulpits too. Often preachers share the headlines but don't tell the backstory.
傑夫：當我們瀏覽臉書的時候，我想我們很可能垂涎別人早餐的照片——在那裡可以刷屏！——我們需要記住，我們常常記住新聞頭條，而那些在社交媒體，網絡平臺和講壇以外的背後故事卻容易被忽略了。傳道人常常分享新聞的表面，而不講述背景故事。
Last weekend I talked about a remarkable dream I had 20 years ago that unlocked something in someone else's life that really was quite remarkable. I could easily give the impression that this sort of thing happens to me every day but the truth is that God has not been as chatty as I thought He would be through the years!
上周末，我談到了20年前我曾有過的一個特別的夢想，這在其他人的生命中動了奇妙的工作。這種事情每天都發生在我身上，我可以很容易地給人留下這樣的印象，但在過去的歲月中，實際上上帝並沒有如我所願、常常對我說話。
So, we can help ourselves by realising that often what we see on social media and even hear on platforms are the headlines rather than small print or backstory, and that we therefore should not compare our lives with others because the comparison is not true. All we're seeing is the highlights.
因此常常通過社交媒體上所看到的，甚至在網站平臺上所聽到的只不過是事物的表面，沒有具體的相關細節或者背景故事，我們要常常幫助自己分辨。因而我們更不應該將自己的生活和別人相比較，因為這樣的比較並不真實，我們所看到的一切只不過是表面的亮點。
英文原文出處：Christian Today
中文：Carol
校對：Snow
喜歡就關注吧