Why do people shit on PRC for using simplified Chinese characters but no one gives a shit about Japanese Shinjitai?
為什麼人們會大批中國人用簡體中文，卻丫完全不在乎日語中的「漢字新字體」？
評論翻譯
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chanhyuk 12 points·9 hours ago
I assume it's only the most hardcore of Hong Kong/Taiwanese nationalists or retarded CCJ trolls who say this. I don't think I ever heard anyone complain about them outside this subreddit.
我認為只有香港和臺灣最固執的名族主義者，或者是智力缺陷的釣魚黨才會說出這種話。除了在這個討論區，我從沒有聽到過任何有關於此的抱怨。
WhiteZhengChengGong Cambodia 5 points·8 hours ago
xiefeilaga 6 points·6 hours ago
A debate pops up just about every time someone asks about whether to learn traditional or simplified on one of the language learning subreddits with the "destroyed cultural knowledge" argument coming out every single time.
每當有人問起，是應該學習傳統的繁體字還是簡化了的漢字時，總會引發爭論，「破壞文化知識」的觀點也總會被提出。
I've also gotten that lecture from plenty of HK Taiwan and diaspora folks. I'd say it comes up in about half of the initial conversations with people from those groups if we speak in Chinese or talk about my life in China.
在這個問題上，我被很多香港、臺灣原住民和外籍華人「教育過」。必須要說的是，如果我們用中文交談或者談到我在中國的生活，大約有一半的對話會開始轉向這個話題。
The more hardcore have taken to calling it 正體 (correct characters) rather than 繁體 (complex characters). Even for those who don't care as much they seem to think the simplification was much more extreme than it really was. One Taiwanese-American woman was totally convinced that simplified Chinese had done away with all distinctions between 的得 and 地 and simply used 的 for everything.
這些頑固分子中，更多地傾向於將傳統中文漢字稱為「正體（正確的漢字）」，而不是「繁體」。即使是不那麼頑固的人，他們似乎也覺得漢字簡化比其本身更加徹底極端。一位美籍臺灣婦女堅信，簡化漢字已經將「的」、「得」、「地」這三者之間的區別完全同化，只簡單得在所有情況下都用「的」。
Lewey_B 2 points·1 hour ago
The 「traditional is better」 circlejerk is strong here especially in chinese language subreddits. Funnily enough you never hear PRC or simplified learners criticize traditional. Some people take this subject a bit too seriously and it seems more to be about politics than anything else in the end.
「傳統的更好」這種無聊的思想在紅迪網中國語言子版塊上爭論聲更大。有趣的是，你從未聽到過中國大陸人民或學習簡化漢字的人指責傳統的不好。一些人把這個問題看得太過嚴肅，最後似乎還將此上升到政治高度，而不是其它問題。
chinaxiha 0 points·7 hours ago（貼主）
HK and taiwanese and some other folks all say PRC destroyed chinese culture and one way PRC does that is to destroy chinese characters by doing simplified. HK and Taiwan therefore preserve chinese culture much better because they retain traditional writing.
i've never heard HKies and taiwanese claiming the japanese destroyed japanese culture by simplifying kanji.
香港和臺灣以及其他人都說中國大陸破壞了中國文化，其中之一就是中國大陸推行簡化漢字破壞了中國漢字。因為香港和臺灣使用繁體漢字，所以他們更好地保存了中國文化。我從來沒有聽說香港人和臺灣人指責日本人簡化（日本）漢字而破壞了日本文化。
Jaqqarhan 6 points·7 hours ago
[i've never heard HKies and taiwanese claiming the japanese destroyed japanese culture]
[我從來沒有聽說香港人和臺灣人指責日本人簡化（日本）漢字而破壞了日本文化。]
They don't care about traditional Japanese culture because they aren't Japanese. It's the same reason British people complain about American English but never complain about Mexican Spanish or Quebecois French. People just get upset about perceived sins against their own language and culture
因為他們不是日本人，所以他們不關心日本傳統文化。這和英國人抱怨美式英語但卻從不指責墨西哥西班牙語或魁北克式法語是一個道理。人們只會對本民族的文化破壞感到不滿和不安。
ABCinNYC98 3 points·7 hours ago
Because the Japanese aren't Chinese. Traditional vs Simplified is more about who is more authentic "Chinese" or who has more social gravitas.
Most Chinese don't view Japanese people as Chinese. They don't even use cursive form of kanji writing which is also a form of social signaling in the Chinese community. Most Chinese view Japanese culture as a derivative and frozen in time from when they brought over technology and literature from the mainland.
It's along the same lines of ethnic Korean in China no one cares about the other Korean writing system it's their fluency in hanja that Chinese people care about.
因為日本人不是中國人，繁體與簡體更多的是關於誰是更正統的「漢字」或誰更具社交權威。大部分中國人不認為日本人是中國人，他們甚至不使用漢字的草書形式書寫，這也是中國社會社交信號的一種形式。大多數中國人視日本文化為（中國文化的）一種衍生物，自他們從中國大陸引進技術和文學的時候起就被凍結了。中國的朝鮮族也一樣，沒人關心其他朝鮮文的書寫體系，中國人關心的是他們（使用）朝鮮漢字的流利程度。
chinaxiha 0 points·5 hours ago
isn't jiaguwen most authentic.
甲骨文不是才是最正統的（漢字）嗎？
PM-ME-YUAN 2 points·33 minutes ago
Traditional characters on a computer screen can't be read unless you zoom right in. They need destroying by fire.
電腦屏幕上的繁體字根本沒法看懂，除非你放大了看。它們需要被焚掉。
leanhsi Great Britain 4 points·9 hours ago
tbh I have never heard this complaint voiced about the PRC either...
說實話，我也從來沒聽過關於中國大陸的這種抱怨的聲音...
chinaxiha 5 points·9 hours ago
paging /u/hkric416.
i think its one of the most common criticism of prc from taiwanese and hkies. unfortunately lee kuan yew took away the singaporean's criticism right when he moved from traditionalist to simplified otherwise i'm sure they'll use it.
我想這是臺灣人和香港人對中國大陸最常見的批評之一，不幸的是，當李光耀轉向化繁為簡時，他就剝奪了新加坡人批評的權利。否則，我肯定他們還是使用繁體字。
mprey 1 point·7 hours ago
My main issue isn't with simplification in itself just that they often look jarring and ugly next to traditional characters. Simplification either didn't go far enough or shouldn't have happened
我的主要問題不在於簡化本身，而在於簡體字對比繁體字經常顯得突兀和醜陋。漢字簡化要麼是進行得不徹底，要麼是一開始就不應該簡化。
chinaxiha -2 points·7 hours ago
1.who gets to decide what characters look ugly and jarring? is there a possible obxtive standard
2.japanese shinjitai created many simplified kanji that is exactly the same as chinese simplified. do those look jarring and ugly too?
3.whats the basis for simplification going "far enough"?
4.i think jiaguwen looks best and better than traditional. that cursive form and abstractness is sexy af. should we bring that back?
1.誰來決定哪個字體看起來醜陋和突兀？這其中有沒有客觀的評判標準？
2.日本新字體創造了很多簡化的漢字，跟中國的簡化是完全一樣的，這些字也看起來突兀和醜陋嗎？
3.簡化「徹底」的標準是什麼？
4.我認為甲骨文看上去比繁體字好看得多，草書形式和抽象體是很性感的書寫形式，我們應該恢復它們的使用嗎？
mprey 7 points·6 hours ago
1.It looks like someone writing cursive and noncursive in one sentence. Or alternating caps. That looks jarring too. No there is no obxtive standard. It is my opinion. That is why I am posting it
2.Japanese already has all the non kanji characters so there is visual inconsistency built in already. I don't think it looks good
3.Ensuring that writing essentially dOeSN'T lOoK LiKE tHiS
4.Why not if you like it.
1.這就像有人用草書和非草書字體寫了一句話，或像英文大小寫交替著寫句子，這樣看起來也很突兀。沒有，這其中就沒有一個客觀的標準，這是我的觀點，這就是為什麼我要發表我的觀點的原因。
2.日本人已經創造了一套非漢字的文字，因此視覺上的不一致早已建成，我不覺得那看起來好看。
3. 這是為了確保書寫本質上不會像這樣。（這裡是簡繁混雜使用，簡繁對比：確保書寫本質上不會像這樣/確保書寫本質上不會像這樣；原句國外網友為表達出這種視覺上的不協調，英文中故意大小寫沒規範混著一塊用）
4.如果你喜歡它，為什麼不用？
Lewey_B 1 point·1 hour ago
I find simplified to be better looking than traditional. Traditional is a PITA to write and looks bad in a small font. Also there are many characters with few strokes in simplified so your point #3 doesn't stand
我覺得簡體字比繁體字更好看，繁體字蛋疼般得難寫，而且字體小的話很難看。此外，也有很多繁體字有很少的筆畫，所以你的第三個觀點站不住腳。
Manji2077 1 point·9 hours ago
I would assume it's because many Japanese only know the common kanji characters and many of them go unused. It's common to have hiragana under kanji so people know what they mean.
我認為這是因為很多日本人只知道一些一般的漢字，而其中很多漢字都是不使用的。在漢字下面配有平假名是很常見的，這樣人們就知道它們的意思了。
chinaxiha 3 points·9 hours ago·edited 9 hours ago
isn't knowing like 2000 words kinda of mandatory of high schoolers in japan?
my point being all the traditionalists who think lament the loss of the "king must listen to its people" in the hear word i've never heard of them shitting japan for throwing out all those history/culture.
日本的高中生不是強制性要求要識得2000字嗎？我的觀點是，所有內心世界哀嘆著「國王必須傾聽子民的心聲」的時代已經逝去的傳統主義者們，我可從來沒有聽他們大批日本要拋棄所有這些歷史/文化。
Manji2077 2 points·9 hours ago
It is but few people actually retain that.
I don't know about china but Japan has had an large amount of reformation due to its history.
是的，但是很少有人記住這點。我不知道中國是怎樣的，但出於歷史原因，日本有進行過大量的改革。
chinaxiha 1 point·9 hours ago
yea i can understand why they don't retain it because they already have 2 other systems. but still the amount of kanji in everyday life surprises me. i literally know everything and where to go just based on kanji alone.
i guess my question is why are the traditionalists criticizing chinese reformation of the writing system but no one criticizes japanese reformation. most often the criticism is saying the simplification throws out history and culture but shinjitai is the same thing no?
是的，我能理解為什麼他們不保留它，因為他們已經有了另外兩種文字系統。但是日常生活中的漢字數量還是讓我感到驚訝。我真的僅靠其中的日文漢字就能了解所有事情，知道該去哪裡。我想我的問題是，為什麼傳統主義者批評中國書寫系統的改革，卻沒有人批評日本的改革。最常見的批評是說簡體字拋棄了歷史和文化，而日本的新字體不是一回事嗎？
Manji2077 1 point·9 hours ago
Oh wow that's cool I need to get better with it. Yeah it is odd. Just a difference in cultures I suppose
哦，哇哦，太酷了。我需要更好掌握它，是的，這很奇怪，我猜這只是文化上的差異。
Yirou 1 point·7 hours ago
It’s usually just extremely proud aka obnoxious HK/Taiwan people who say this. Never mind the fact that traditional writing does exist in mainland and most young educated people do know how to read them. They claim traditional are way better because they have more culture and history meaning which is kinda bs if you want a culture experience when communicating why don’t you carve in stone. Anyway most of them who love to move to Singapore where simplified Chinese is used that’s how much they care about it.
通常只有那些極端「自豪」也就是那些非常惹人厭的香港/臺灣人會這麼說，更不用說繁體書寫在大陸確實存在過，且大部分受過教育的年輕人知道怎麼讀繁體字。他們稱繁體字更好是因為繁體字有更多的文化和歷史意義，這真能扯。如果你在交流時想要一種文化體驗，為什麼不乾脆把字刻在石頭上交流算了。不管怎麼說，他們中的大多數人都喜歡搬到使用簡體漢字的新加坡，這就是他們對簡體中文真正的關心程度。
chinaxiha 2 points·7 hours ago
we should just bring back jiaguwen man. that is probably the most original and chinese cultuer writing present. traditional is just a basterdized version of jiaguwen the true chinese writing.
我們應該要恢復使用甲骨文，兄弟們。這可能是最原始的，也是最能體現中國書寫文化的字體。繁體字只不過是中國正統漢字甲骨文的一個非正宗「血統」的私生子版本。
waiguorer 1 point·4 hours ago
But there isn't jiaguwen characters for so many modern words though if someone made a jiaguwen font I would totally fuck with it.
但是，現在這麼現代詞彙中並沒有甲骨文字符，儘管如此，若有人真創造出一種甲骨文字體，我絕對會搞砸它的。
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