Hello, 大家好，歡迎收聽東西對話,
the East-West Dialogues.
我是今天的主播小V，
繼續為大家分享
《邂逅卡普拉（下）|
MEETING A GURU – SYSTEMS THINKER FRITJOF CAPRA》
在《邂逅量子力學家卡普拉（上）》中，我們聽到了卡普拉對生命的系統觀（the Systems View of Life）以及第四次工業革命（the Fourth Industrial Revolution）的看法。接下來未來學家班傑明·巴特爾（Benjamin Bulter)將就全球經濟危機（Global Economic Crisis）和全球環境危機(Global Environmental Crisis)和卡普拉對話。
費傑夫·卡普拉（量子力學家）
If you would like to learn more about Fritjof Capra, then please go to his site.
(如果您希望了解卡普拉的更多著作，請登錄他的個人網站)
www.fritjofcapra.net
Also consider signing up for his online course, the Capra Course.
(以及參加他的在線課程「卡普拉課程」）
http://www.capracourse.net/
班傑明·巴特爾 （未來學家）
If you would like to learn more about Benjamin Bulter and futurism of global financial market trend, then please go to the Emerging Future Institute website.
(如果您希望了解班傑明和他對金融市場的未來趨勢預測，請登錄"新興未來智庫"網站）
http://emergingfuture.com/about/
全球經濟危機
班傑明·巴特爾（未來學家）：
你對全球經濟的展望(outlook)是什麼？我們是否面臨危機？（即使你不是經濟學家）
費傑夫·卡普拉（量子力學家）
我們正處於全球性的經濟危機(global economic crisis)之中，不是經濟學家反而能幫助理解它。原因是，我們當代的主要問題：能源(energy)，環境(environment)，經濟(economy)，氣候變化(climate change)，社會不平等(social inequality)，暴力(violence)和戰爭(war)，都是系統性的問題(systemic problems)，這意味著它們都是相互關聯(interconnected），相互依存的（interdependent）。它們需要的是相應的系統解決方案(systemic solution)：並不孤立地（in isolation）解決任何問題，而在其他相關問題的背景下解決。這意味著，經濟危機不能僅僅靠經濟學家來單獨解決，只能通過更多系統的，多領域的方式(multidiciplinary approach)。今天，數百個這樣的系統解決方案已在全球的公民社會中，被學者們和活動家們提出並測試，我們現在需要的用政治意願(political will)和領導能力(leadership)實施它們。
Benjamin Bulter (the Futurist ):
What is your outlook for the global economy? Are we facing crisis? [Even if you are not an economist]
Fritjof Capra (the Quantum Phyiscist ):
We are in the midst of a global economic crisis, and in order to understand it, it actually helps not being an economist. The reason is that the major problems of our time— energy, environment, economy, climate change, social inequality, violence and war — are systemic problems, which means that they are all interconnected and interdependent. They need corresponding systemic solutions — solutions that do not solve any problem in isolation but deal with it within the context of other related problems. This means that the economic crisis cannot be solved by economists alone, but only by means of a systemic, multidisciplinary approach.Today, hundreds of such systemic solutions have been proposed and tested by the scholars and activists in the global civil society. What we need to implement them is political will and leadership.
本段詞彙要點：
outlook : 展望
global economic crisis：全球經濟危機
social inequality: 社會不平等
interconnected: 互信關聯的
interdependent:互信依賴的
systemic solution:系統解決方案
in isolation: 孤立的
multidisciplinary approach: 跨學界的方式
political will: 政治意願
leadership:領導力
全球環境危機Global Environmental Crisis班傑明·巴特爾（未來學家）：
你對環境危機的感受是什麼？你覺察到社會中的兩極化了嗎？
費傑夫·卡普拉（量子力學家）
我們全球的所有問題都有一個根本困境（fundamental dilemma），幻想在一個有限的星球(limited planet) 可能進行無限地增長(unlimited growth）。非理性地信仰（irrational belief）著永恆的經濟增長(perpetual economic growth)，等於衝突於線性思維和生物圈中的非線性模式,構成生命之網(web of life)的各種生態網絡和周期之間。這個高度非線性的全球網絡，通過地球平衡和自我調節，包含了無數的反饋迴路。與之形成鮮明對比的是，我們目前的經濟體制，是以物質和貪婪為燃料的，似乎並沒有認識到任何極限。
經濟和企業的增長是全球資本主義(global capitalism)的驅動力(driving force)，是佔主導地位的經濟體系。在全球經濟的中心，是一個金融流通的網絡，它的設計卻沒有任何的倫理框架(ethical framework)。事實上，社會地不平等和社會排斥是經濟全球化(economic globalization) 的內在特徵，擴大了貧富差距(gap between the rich and the poor)和日益增長的世界貧困。
在這樣的經濟體系，永恆的增長（(perpetual growth)）是不懈地追求（pursued relentlessly），通過刺激過度消費（excessive consumption)，能源資源密集(resource intensive)和扔掉型經濟(throw-away economy)，產生浪費和汙染，並耗盡地球的自然資源(deplete resources)。此外，我們的能源密集型和化石燃料為基礎(fossil-fuel-based)的技術造成的環境問題，在全球氣候變化(global climate change)下更加劇了。
看來，我們的主要挑戰是如何從一個以無限增長(unlimited growth)為概念基礎的經濟系統，轉型為生態可持續（ecologically sustainable）和社會公平(socially just)，但「不增長（no growth）」卻不是答案。增長是一切生命的核心特徵(central characteristic)，一個沒有增長的社會或經濟體系遲早會死的。然而，增長的本質(growth in nature)，不是線性的(linear)，也不是無限的。當某些有機體，或生態系統，在增長，就會有其他的在減少，釋放和回收他們的組成部分，成為新增長的來源。這種平衡，多層面的增長(multi-faceted growth)對於生物學家和生態學家是眾所周知的。我稱之為「定性的增長（qualitative growth）」，與之形成對比的是，今天的經濟學家所使用的「量的增長（quantitative growth）」的概念。
Benjamin Bulter (the Futurist ):
What are your feelings about the environmental crisis? Do you perceive polarisation in society?
Fritjof Capra (the Quantum Phyiscist ):
The fundamental dilemma underlying all our global problems seems to be the illusion that unlimited growth is possible on a finite planet. The irrational belief in perpetual economic growth amounts to a clash between linear thinking and the nonlinear patterns in our biosphere — the ecological networks and cycles that constitute the web of life. This highly nonlinear global network contains countless feedback loops through which the planet balances and regulates itself. Our current economic system, by contrast, is fueled by materialism and greed that do not seem to recognize any limits.
本段詞彙要點：
polarisation:兩極化
fundamental dilema:根本的困境
illusion：幻覺
unlimited growth:無限制的增長
finite planet: 有限的星球
irrational belief: 非理性的信仰
perpetual economic growth:永恆的經濟增長
linear thinking:線性思維
the web of life: 生命之網
Fritjof Capra (the Quantum Phyiscist ):
Economic and corporate growth are the driving forces of global capitalism, the dominant economic system today. At the center of the global economy is a network of financial flows, which has been designed without any ethical framework. In fact, social inequality and social exclusion are inherent features of economic globalization, widening the gap between the rich and the poor and increasing world poverty.
本段詞彙要點：
driving force:驅動力
global capitalism：全球資本主義
ethical framework: 倫理框架
economic globalization: 經濟全球化
gap between the rich and the poor：貧富差距
Fritjof Capra (the Quantum Phyiscist ):
In this economic system, perpetual growth is pursued relentlessly by promoting excessive consumption and a throw-away economy that is energy and resource intensive, generating waste and pollution, and depleting the Earth’s natural resources. Moreover, these environmental problems are exacerbated by global climate change, caused by our energy-intensive and fossil-fuel-based technologies.
本段詞彙要點：
pursued relentlessly：不懈地追求
excessive consumption: 過度消費
throw-away economy:拋棄型經濟
resource intensive: 能源密集型
deplete resources: 耗盡資源
global climate change: 全球氣候變化
fossil-fuel-based：化石燃料為基礎的
Fritjof Capra (the Quantum Phyiscist ):
It seems, then, that our key challenge is how to shift from an economic system based on the notion of unlimited growth to one that is both ecologically sustainable and socially just. 「No growth」 is not the answer. Growth is a central characteristic of all life; a society, or economy, that does not grow will die sooner or later. Growth in nature, however, is not linear and unlimited. While certain parts of organisms, or ecosystems, grow, others decline, releasing and recycling their components which become resources for new growth. This kind of balanced, multi-faceted growth is well known to biologists and ecologists. I call it 「qualitative growth」 to contrast it with the concept of quantitative growth used by today’s economists.
本段詞彙要點：
unlimited growth:無限的增長
ecologically sustainable:生態可持續地
socially just:社會公平
growth in nature:增長的本質
linear:線性的
organism: 有機體
multi-faceted: 多層面的
qualitative growth:定性的增長
quantitative growth：定量的增長
Through inheritance, cultivating talents for Chinese traditions
以文化傳統，培養中西匯通人才
From holism, discerning global trends and changes
以系統視角，洞察全球趨勢變化
Via dialogues, bridging the East and West
以對話形式，促進東西文化交流
歡迎掃碼訂閱 獲取深度資訊